Cash Genie - How very dare they!

Rosey_Future

Hello again,

Since my first posting yesterday, I have already found you all to be a wonderful source of knowledge and support. I wonder if I can ask another question.

Several years ago, I took out a payday loan with Cash Genie for £250. I had a lot of financial issues and unfortunely the loan went unpaid, particularly because they wanted an insane amount of money in late payment charges - taking my loan from £250 to over £1000.

My house was repossessed over a year ago and I stopped having my mail forwarded after about 3 months.

Here is my question. Cash Genie applied a County Court Judgement and secured an Attachment of Earnings order which was served on my previous address. I only found out when a chunk on my salary disappeared recently. Cash Genie have now managed over 2 payments to take £1436 directly from my salary on a court order.

Do I have any rights here. Firstly, I didnt think a court order could be considered served if I didnt receive it and i can prove that I hadnt lived there for some time. And secondly, as I didnt respond, Cash Genie seem to have just pulled a figure out of the air and managed to take nearly £1500 from my salary for a £250 loan.

My employer has provided me with the details. Can I make an appeal back to the court about this. I dont dispute that i owe them, but i certainly dont owe this much. Also, if all my other creditors are under a debt management plan, what makes Cash Genie so special that they get to take it from my salary?

I am fuming. Do i have any rights or should i just let this one go and learn from it????

Tixy

Hi

A creditor only has to send court papers to your last known address. If you did not provide them with your new address then they would have no other option but to send them to the old one.

Court papers are sent in the post, they don't need to be handed to the debtor in person.

If you do not reply to court papers then a judgment would be granted forthwith.
If you find out about a CCJ at a later date and dispute that you owe the money or dispute the amount owed then you could consider applying to have the judgement set aside - this basically takes the case back to court for you to say why you don't owe the money.

Once a creditor has a CCJ then an attachment of earnings is a fairly standard way of them enforcing the debt.

Was Cashgenie not included in your DMP?

If you want to consider if you have grounds for getting the judgment set aside there is a factsheet here - http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=12_how_to_set_aside_a_judgment_in_the_county_court
but there is a fee to apply.

FireWyrm

Well, my first question would be, how did they get my employment details and who do my employer thing they are talking directly to a creditor of mine. See, without the breakdown of how much you earn, no court would grant a garnishment order. If you have never been to court, never been given the opportunity to answer for yourself, or to come to terms with your creditor, someone has made a very very big mistake somewhere. This is illegal, plain and simple. No one can access your wages except a court and to do that, they have to give you the chance to answer a summons...since yo never received it...etc...you can see where this is going.

My first order of business would be a very stiff conversation with my employer. I would want to know how they were advised of this order, what the reference is, where the paperwork is etc. Once you have that, you go to court and have it overturned. Once you've done that you sue the company for the return of your money and your employer for breaking DPA since nobody but them could have told the creditor of your details.....

Someone will be along shortly with more information I imagine, but oyu are completely right to be angry. I would be looking for blood.

Tixy

On an attachment of earnings the creditor/court don't need to know how much salary is earned - they simple inform the employer that there is an attachment of earnings and they calculate the amount to deduct (based on prescribed amounts dependant on the level of salary).

The payday loan company only has to inform the court of where the person is employed - and they will know this from the original loan application (that is assuming the person has not moved employment in the meantime).

edit - sorry just double checked - if you don't complete the court form the court can go to your employer and ask them to provide details of the debtors earnings.

Rosey_Future

I checked with my payroll department. They said that the order was received in December directly from the Court. Therefore they claim they have a legal entitlement to action it and I need to take it up with the court.

Payroll said they have guidelines on how much money to deduct - basically they are not allowed to leave me below a certain amount per month, but like you said FireWirm and Tixy, nobody, not my employer nor the Court ever asked me for an income and expenditure report.

Ok, so in the new spirit of not burying my head in the sand, I have obtained the reference number and the name of the Court. So I am going to start there and see if i can get the thing overturned and get my money back. They are welcome to keep the amount of the loan and reasonable interest, but you cant just add £1000 onto a debt just because you feel like it!

On those grounds, that means I could get a court judgement against anyone - make up a random amount - and get a court to action it.

Ok, I am looking at HM Courts online to see if there is a form i need to complete.

I so wish I had this enthusiasm and energy to sort out my finances earlier... But better late than never.

I have only been on the ball with sorting out my finances for the past couple of months, but already I understand why Martin was inspired to start this site.

FireWyrm

Tixy wrote: »

edit - sorry just double checked - if you don't complete the court form the court can go to your employer and ask them to provide details of the debtors earnings.

And no one thought to inform the debtor? Personally, I'd be tearing strips off my employer.:mad:

FireWyrm

Rosey_Future wrote: »

I have only been on the ball with sorting out my finances for the past couple of months, but already I understand why Martin was inspired to start this site.

Perversely, its why most of us hang out here...it keeps us motivated too.

With regard to the income and expenditure report, as far as I can tell, they cannot deduct money that was meant for someone else, money used for DMP, money used to pay your essential priority bills or for food. So, how much have they taken and what proportion of your salary are you left with? Does it look like they've taken reasonable steps to even make a guess as to your expenditure or are you destitute and unable to feed yourself for the month?


Start with the court...take it from there one step at a time.

Tixy

FireWyrm wrote: »

And no one thought to inform the debtor? Personally, I'd be tearing strips off my employer.:mad:

The court will have written to the debtor at the creditors last known address - and received no response.

With regards to the employer - they could of course have told the employer, but it really does depend on the organisation as to whether that would be likely or realistic. Certainly I know where I work currently the payroll department or HR would speak to the employee, but I also know of employers with over 500 employees with over 100 of those having money deducted for CCJs/fines/CSA etc - and they certainly wouldn't inform the employee until an attachment of earnings notice was received - they would expect the debtor to already be aware of the issue - its only because of the address change that the OP wasn't in this case.

Rosey - you need an N244 form from the court - the link in post #2 details the procedure.

Rosey_Future

They didnt leave me with much for the month, but fortunately I am surviving. Funnily enough, after years of being in debt and having money disappearing out of my account left, right and centre, i am sort of used to being skint all the time. I am hoping this will change.

Apparently there is something called "protected earnings". This is the portion of your salary they are not allowed to touch. Other than that, the rest is fair game and the employer can pay anything about the "protected" amount on a court order.

It seems you are right and my course of action is to apply to the court to have the order "set aside". So I am currently filling in a form to send to the County Court forthwith.

Wow, the last 48 hours has been a real education...

Rosey_Future

And yes Tixy, I work for a large company and apparently they are under no obligation to advise employees of these things other than on their payslip.... (after the event unfortunately)

Tixy

Rosey_Future wrote: »

And yes Tixy, I work for a large company and apparently they are under no obligation to advise employees of these things other than on their payslip.... (after the event unfortunately)

It would be much better if employers had to warn an employee in advance. Especially as I know of people who always get their payslips after they have been paid, which could mean they'd already had payments being refused from their accounts by the time they are made aware.

Hope you get it sorted - and if you have queries when making the set aside claim national debtline free helpline is pretty good at offering advise.