PIP - provider guidance

rogerblack

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-assessment-guide.pdf

Some things that leap out.

2.6.34. Prior to concluding face-to-face consultations, HPs should give
claimants an overview of the findings they have taken from the
consultation. Claimants should be invited to clarify any points, ask
any questions they have about the assessment procedure and if
there is anything else they would like to say before they leave. The
HP should answer any issues or concerns they express.


2.7.6. Claimants may use their own equipment to record their face-to-face
consultation, should they wish to. However, they must be able to
provide a complete and accurate copy of the recording to the HP at
the end of the consultation. Acceptable formats for such recordings
are restricted to CD and audio cassette only. Claimants wishing to
use their own recording equipment should inform providers in
advance.


2.8.8. Before selecting a descriptor, the HP must consider whether the
claimant can reliably complete the activity in the manner described in
the descriptor, taking into account where they can do so:
• Safely.
• To an acceptable standard.
• Repeatedly.
• In a timely manner.
2.8.9. The HP must also take into account that most health conditions or
impairments can fluctuate over time. The HP should consider ability
over a 12 month period as this helps to iron out fluctuations and
presents a more coherent picture. For a scoring descriptor to apply,
the claimant’s health condition or impairment must affect their ability
to complete the activity on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12-
month period. Where one single descriptor in an activity is likely to
not be satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, but a number of
different scoring descriptors in that activity together are likely to be
satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, the descriptor likely to be
satisfied for the highest proportion of the time should be selected.

I've only skimmed it.

schrodie

Odd isn't it that they're allowing PIP claimants to use their own recording equipment for PIP assessments but not for ESA claimants during WCAs!

dori2o

schrodie wrote: »

Odd isn't it that they're allowing PIP claimants to use their own recording equipment for PIP assessments but not for ESA claimants during WCAs!

But only if you can provide an immediate copy of the recording at the end of the consultation, and the only formats they accept are CD and cassette tape.

How many people have the ability to produce a recording in these formats within the space of a few minutes? The only way to do it would be via a laptop with a CD burner.

Why wouldn't they accept an MP3 file. That way the recording could be done on a phone and emailed or sent via bluetooth/wireless direct to the assessment centre.

JS477

dori2o wrote: »

But only if you can provide an immediate copy of the recording at the end of the consultation, and the only formats they accept are CD and cassette tape.

I though if you wanted to use your own recrding equipemnet Atos stipulated that was to be a professionally calibrated twin deck machine operated by a professional sound engineer!!!

dori2o wrote: »

How many people have the ability to produce a recording in these formats within the space of a few minutes? The only way to do it would be via a laptop with a CD burner.

Couldn't you just use two portable cassette recorders then at the end of the assessment give one cassette to the so called healthcare professional and keep the other for yourself?

satarical

2.6.34. Prior to concluding face-to-face consultations, HPs should give

claimants an overview of the findings they have taken from the

consultation. Claimants should be invited to clarify any points, ask
any
questions they have about the assessment procedure and if
there is anything
else they would like to say before they leave. The
HP should answer any
issues or concerns they express.

Are they being serious? For that to work, the assessor would have to be an experienced individual well versed in the art of extracting information through questioning. Then be a diplomat in trying to tell the claimant that what has been said is a load of old cobblers without offending the claimant. Then finally a politician who can keep a straight face whilst fending off awkward questions from the claimant.

In reality, most claimants will clam up, answer the questions in a way that they think the assessor wants to hear. They will down play their inabilities and over play their abilities. Some will only give yes/no answers as they don't want to say the wrong thing.

I have yet to find an ATOS assessor or even an ATOS doctor that has any of the above skills. And believe me I have had enough of those medicals and assessments.

One so called experienced ATOS doctor after listening to me ramble on for about 30 mins wrote in his report that he doesn't really understand what the medical problem is and can't really decide one way or another whether there was a loss of function or not - so " I will have to agree with what the previous doctor said - 8 years ago!"

You simply couldn't make this up. That sorts me out then - I'll be going for Attendance Allowance when I get called up for the PIP assessment. And people are going to accept under qualified and inexperienced HCP's assessments as factual reports and have them carried out every few years? Not me - I'm off.

JS477

Isn't it the LIMA computer software developed by Atos that drives these assessments and all the "healthcare professional" does is follow on screen prompts and clicks a mouse!

rogerblack

JS477 wrote: »

Isn't it the LIMA computer software developed by Atos that drives these assessments and all the "healthcare professional" does is follow on screen prompts and clicks a mouse!

It's not quite fair to say that.
The HCP can use pre-chosen phrases, if they are appropriate, or they can almost write the entire report free-text.

In both my assessments, large fractions of the report have been free text.

rogerblack

satarical wrote: »

Are they being serious? For that to work, the assessor would have to be an experienced individual well versed in the art of extracting information through questioning. Then be a diplomat in trying to tell the claimant that what has been said is a load of old cobblers without offending the claimant. Then finally a politician who can keep a straight face whilst fending off awkward questions from the claimant.

I regret that this part of the guidance is likely to be dropped.
Clearly, it would be a truly revolutionary and wonderful development - but I feel it's essentially impossible.
With the best will in the world, in at least a very large fraction of cases, this will devolve into a horribly stressful argument, where the HP (note, the dropping of the C in this guidance) is stuck between trying to defend ridiculous edge-cases in the legislation as legitimate, and arguments 'Are you calling me a liar'.

halight

rogerblack wrote: »

I regret that this part of the guidance is likely to be dropped.
Clearly, it would be a truly revolutionary and wonderful development - but I feel it's essentially impossible.
With the best will in the world, in at least a very large fraction of cases, this will devolve into a horribly stressful argument, where the HP (note, the dropping of the C in this guidance) is stuck between trying to defend ridiculous edge-cases in the legislation as legitimate, and arguments 'Are you calling me a liar'.

Do we know why they have dropped the "C" ?Are they now allowed to use a cleaner that has been trained in first aid now ?

satarical

JS477 wrote: »

Isn't it the LIMA computer software developed by Atos that drives these assessments and all the "healthcare professional" does is follow on screen prompts and clicks a mouse!

Personally I can't see how that can be the case. CAPITA are also involved in the PIP assessments and the LiMA software belongs to ATOS. Maybe CAPITA are paying ATOS to use it? Or maybe the assessment will be carried out along the lines of the DLA or IIDB assessments. You say your piece, then the doctor writes up his/her own opinion that has very little bearing on what you said - claimant - ' I am prescribed 150mg of Morphine daily for the pain' - ATOS doctor writes ' claimant takes low level pain relief medication!'

satarical

halight wrote: »

Do we know why they have dropped the "C" ?Are they now allowed to use a cleaner that has been trained in first aid now ?

Quite possible it seems. What is a 'Health Professional'? Maybe they are taking on the likes of Christie or Shipman?