How do you prove that your cash is in equity?

linthouse

No offence taken. We've worked out that, bearing in mind the astronomical cost of care homes, the funds from the sale of the house will last less than five years. Then the state takes over in funding her care home costs, but my sister has lost her 30,000. It's looking bleak. Unless the bank has some obscure way of compressing data older than 7 years, the money might be a real goner.

zzzLazyDaisy

linthouse wrote: »

My sister put 30k into our mum's house to make life easier for her. She has now had to go into full time care so the house is being sold to pay for that. They didn't put it in writing other than bank records that the transactions were within seconds of each other - out of one account, into the other. The bank says that, after seven years, all records are wiped so the bank has no record of these transactions.

I know most people will think it's a goner, but I'm wondering if anyone actually knows of a way to access this information.

Just a thought, do you have to sell the house? Would it be possible to rent out the house to cover the care home fees, and therefore keep the capital in the house intact?

Edit, just thinking further - how many other people know about this? Was it common knowledge? What I am thinking is that it is possible that the Local Authority will accept the will accompanied by sworn affidavits by your mum (if she still has her faculties), your sister, you, and anyone else that would have known about this.

For example - was the solicitor told that some of the purchase money was coming from your sister? This would probably be on the file, and although solicitors only have to keep files for 6 years, most keep them for much longer than that.

What you are trying to do is to establish that your sister has a 'beneficial interest' in the house. If it was a condition of the loan that your mum altered her will to ensure that she would be given the money back on death, and if there is evidence of this, then there may be a chance that you could establish a beneficial interest (that is to say that although your mum's name was on the title deeds, the £30k was effectively held in trust for your sister). However I am not a property lawyer and I do think that it would be worth you having a half hour appointment with a solicitor to see if this is worth pursuing.

It is a pity that this was not made clear on the title deeds, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

linthouse

The rent we would get would probably only cover a quarter of the payment. I'm afraid my mum hasn't got all her faculties any more. She's had to go into a care home due to her dementia. The money my sister contributed to the house was by way of a bank transaction so no solicitors were involved.

Linton

Have you looked into Care Annuities? They would limit the total cost.

McKneff

linthouse wrote: »

No offence taken. We've worked out that, bearing in mind the astronomical cost of care homes, the funds from the sale of the house will last less than five years. Then the state takes over in funding her care home costs, but my sister has lost her 30,000. It's looking bleak. Unless the bank has some obscure way of compressing data older than 7 years, the money might be a real goner.

How did you work that out though, did you take any benefits that she will be entitled to whilst she is in the care home into account. As I mentioned before.
If not, try to find out what she is entitled to, then work it out.

zzzLazyDaisy

What I meant was that (depending on when she bought the house) the solicitor who acted for her may have had an obligation under the money laundering rules to ascertain where the purchase monies came from. So if your mum told him that £30k came from your sister, that would be on file, and may still be accessible.

xylophone

My mum's will states that my sister should get the money back

Then this could be the proof you need that the money was a loan?
What exactly does the will say?

atush

xylophone wrote: »

Then this could be the proof you need that the money was a loan?
What exactly does the will say?

yes, see post 11

zzzLazyDaisy

atush wrote: »

It would seem to me, the copies of the bank statements, plus the will are evidence this was a loan not a gift. So go to the council with them

But OP has stated that they are unable to obtain copies of the bank statements. So there is no documentary evidence that the sister ever gave the money to the mother in the first place.

Anyone can write a will saying that someone gave them a loan and it is to be repaid from the sale of the house - especially if that person is already in the early stages of an illness which might mean them going into a home and they want to save some of the money for their children (I am not saying this is what happened, just that without evidence of the money being transferred and/or a formal loan agreement, or any charge or restriction on the deeds, this is one possible conclusion).

Which is why they are probably going to need evidence from some other source, such as witnesses, or the solicitor's file.

Although all this may be jumping the gun, as it seems that they have not yet approached the local authority for their views. It is possible that they may accept the will as evidence of intent.

BTW, OP, was the will made at the same time as the house purchase? If so it may be worth going back to the solicitor who made the will, as the explanation may be on their file. Having said that, it is a bit surprising that the solicitor did not liaise with the conveyancing solicitor to have something more formal drawn up about the loan at the time.

Mojisola

linthouse wrote: »

The rent we would get would probably only cover a quarter of the payment. I'm afraid my mum hasn't got all her faculties any more. She's had to go into a care home due to her dementia. The money my sister contributed to the house was by way of a bank transaction so no solicitors were involved.

Have you looked at fighting to get her care paid for - https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=399

Also, if she does end up paying, funding will start again once the capital drops to £23,250 so your sister will get some of her money back eventually.