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Tax credits and universal credit
Comments
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I don't know that the transfer to UC will make all that much difference to the kind of families were nobody has worked for 3 or 4 generations. (And BTW, families like that are clearly not the fault of any one government or political party.)
But I wonder if it will go some way to undoing the change that WTC/CTC brought in. Before WTC/CTC came in, people who liked to think of themselves as belonging to the professional classes claimed CB, and when they were old enough, the state pension, but they didn't claim means-tested benefits, except maybe if they got made redundant and were temporarily out of work, or in ill health and unable to work or whatever. Whereas WTC/CTC made it normal for people with quite decent jobs to fill in forms about their finances and send them off to claim extra money from the state even when they weren't in crisis. I suspect UC won't eliminate that, but I think that once all the transfers have happened, it will decrease it quite a bit.
Which is why it's interesting that politically it's being sold as "helping the workless to get back into work" and "making sure work always pays" etc, putting the focus squarely on the bottom end of the income spectrum, and the aspect of "removing benefits from middle class people who could manage without them" seems to be slipping under the radar for the time being.Do you know anyone who's bereaved? Point them to https://www.AtaLoss.org which does for bereavement support what MSE does for financial services, providing links to support organisations relevant to the circumstances of the loss & the local area. (Link permitted by forum team)
Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.
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grizzly1911 wrote: »Because as society we have all failed?
I think that society does need to re-evaluate it's position. Unbridled population growth is unsustainable.0 -
I don't know that the transfer to UC will make all that much difference to the kind of families were nobody has worked for 3 or 4 generations. (And BTW, families like that are clearly not the fault of any one government or political party.)
But I wonder if it will go some way to undoing the change that WTC/CTC brought in. Before WTC/CTC came in, people who liked to think of themselves as belonging to the professional classes claimed CB, and when they were old enough, the state pension, but they didn't claim means-tested benefits, except maybe if they got made redundant and were temporarily out of work, or in ill health and unable to work or whatever. Whereas WTC/CTC made it normal for people with quite decent jobs to fill in forms about their finances and send them off to claim extra money from the state even when they weren't in crisis. I suspect UC won't eliminate that, but I think that once all the transfers have happened, it will decrease it quite a bit.
Which is why it's interesting that politically it's being sold as "helping the workless to get back into work" and "making sure work always pays" etc, putting the focus squarely on the bottom end of the income spectrum, and the aspect of "removing benefits from middle class people who could manage without them" seems to be slipping under the radar for the time being.
I think you are right, and if so, the middle class who were getting WTC/CTC will find their income as you say "it will decrease it quite a bit."
This is going to have a huge knock on effect on the wider economy. Already many are finding cost of living going up far more than their income, now they will see their income going down on top of continued rising inflation in cost of living.
This thread was asking questions about the effect on the wider economy and house prices, well I can see it only adding more downwords pressure on rents and house prices.
All this austerity going on around the world is only going to get more and more, the middle class is getting wiped out, could it be happening in the UK when WTC/CTC gets stopped and UC is brought in?0 -
All this austerity going on around the world is only going to get more and more, the middle class is getting wiped out, could it be happening in the UK when WTC/CTC gets stopped and UC is brought in?
We had middle class people before WTC/ CTC - I think we'll still have them post UC too.0 -
We had middle class people before WTC/ CTC - I think we'll still have them post UC too.
Yeah but we never had the global financial crisis then. Everyone can see the crisis getting worse and worse.
The high benefit payments are unsustainable, UC is just the start there are going to be a lot more cuts and reductions coming in the years to come. There could be real poverty in the UK, its not even started yet.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Loading up "real"students with the massive baggage of debt is wonderful support, that £40K of debt helps no end. Gets them off on the right foot with an additional tax take of 9%, makes the greasy snakes and ladders of life so much more rewarding.
They don't mind who they shaft.
Its more of a graduate tax than debt, and if it persuades people to do meaningful degrees that actually increase the skillset of this country rather than churning out loads of media studies graduates than its a good thing.
What is missing though is support for vastly increased apprenticeship schemes which could function as alternatives for university.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Loading up "real"students with the massive baggage of debt is wonderful support, that £40K of debt helps no end. Gets them off on the right foot with an additional tax take of 9%, makes the greasy snakes and ladders of life so much more rewarding.
They don't mind who they shaft.
Benefits Scrounging Scum
Subsidies to higher education go predominently to the middle classes. Withdrawing them and replacing them with a graduate tax means that those on low incomes are not paying taxes to support the children of the middle class doing media studies degrees. It seems odds that so many beleivers in equality of otcome are often ready to defend a status quo that sees lower earner taxes supporting higher earners.I think....0 -
Benefits Scrounging Scum
Subsidies to higher education go predominently to the middle classes. Withdrawing them and replacing them with a graduate tax means that those on low incomes are not paying taxes to support the children of the middle class doing media studies degrees. It seems odds that so many beleivers in equality of otcome are often ready to defend a status quo that sees lower earner taxes supporting higher earners.
Low earners are paying disproportionately more through consumption taxes anyway, A regressive tax.
"Real" degrees was the thrust of my post. Media studies and golf management weren't in my scope.
I'm not sure where this middle class misnomer keeps coming in. The majority of people work for someone else. they don't own the organisations that employ them."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Its more of a graduate tax than debt, and if it persuades people to do meaningful degrees that actually increase the skillset of this country rather than churning out loads of media studies graduates than its a good thing.
What is missing though is support for vastly increased apprenticeship schemes which could function as alternatives for university.
I agree with your view.
Perhaps there should be a distinction between core degrees and those nice to do degrees with a differentiated funding mechanism to encourage take up of those meaningful degrees."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »I agree with your view.
Perhaps there should be a distinction between core degrees and those nice to do degrees with a differentiated funding mechanism to encourage take up of those meaningful degrees.
Do you really think that the state is best placed to pick winners?0
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