Provident I just Can't Afford To Pay

seven-day-weekend

margaretclare wrote: »

Yes, it is, if it leads to a life in debt being seen as the only way to live, and the children growing up with unrealistic expectations. It's not just a few toys, is it? That's how it starts, but gradually it escalates into more and more expensive consumer goods being expected without a thought of where they came from (well, I know that 99% of them came from China, but what I mean is, how they're supposed to be paid for).

Sooner or late some brave parents have got to start saying 'no' to the media-fuelled plastic tat which is the 'must-have' for this year. When people are struggling in debt the watchword has got to be: 'Can you afford it, do you need it?' And borrowing just to buy cheap tacky plastic tat because it's linked to the latest film, is, I would submit, not the way to bring up any child with a responsible attitude to money, one which will stand the child in good stead throughout life.

Margaret

Agree absolutely. Of course I wanted my child (now grown up) to have more than I did. But that means things like better education, more opportunities, more choices, NOT more 'stuff' that just serves to make them materialistic.

The poster above who says kids want it, so is it wrong for them to not have it, is encouraging a totally shallow and frivolous lifestyle, with no idea of what is really important, imho.

margaretclare

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

Hand knitted jumpers, second hand toys, not having the latest plastic toys. Yes it would be great to go back in time and live in the 50's. Whilst we are at it, why not re-introduce ration books. 2 ozs of cheese and butter a week, a loaf of bread, 8 ozs of meat. Great! Or we could go and live in Romania.

Down with progress. Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

This is absolute rubbish. No one wants to go back in time and live in any previous decade. You are choosing to sneer at what you don't understand.

If I was still involved with children at all I would prefer to bring them up with realistic expectations and a healthy attitude to what can and can't be afforded. Isn't this what Martin has been trying to do, since he started this site? Why should anyone take out any form of a loan for this kind of a purpose? Plastic, mass-produced, over-packaged toys will be forgotten once the next consumer 'must-have' comes along. I would prefer simple presents which were lovingly chosen to anything that China can turn out.

The best gift any parent can give any child is to lovingly bring them up with strong values, with a sense of what matters in life and what doesn't. After all, for many people Christmas has lost its religious significance, it's just a date on the calendar apart from being a day off work/school. So why go into debt for it?

Last year DH and I were away for Christmas, we exchanged presents at breakfast-time on Christmas morning, and they were presents we'd chosen beforehand but kept 'secret' and specially-wrapped. Mine was second-hand but we had chosen it together in the local jeweller's. A few weeks after that my eldest granddaughter was given the keys to a council flat after being homeless. Most of the household goods she has acquired are second-hand, either from friends or through Freecycle. I was able to supply her with a complete set of bedding, bedroom curtains, towels and bathroom mats - thank goodness for internet shopping! She didn't turn her nose up at a second-hand bed and mattress through Freecycle. It was a lot better than where she had been sleeping - on her uncle's sofa.

What we give and what we leave to our children/grandchildren, really, are values and standards by which they can live their lives. Those are a lot more valuable than the latest consumer goods. Many people are in a heck of a mess, we see them on here, and growing up expecting that parents will borrow to buy toys is a start to that kind of a mindset.

Margaret

inmypocketnottheirs

margaretclare wrote: »

This is absolute rubbish. No one wants to go back in time and live in any previous decade. You are choosing to sneer at what you don't understand.

If I was still involved with children at all I would prefer to bring them up with realistic expectations and a healthy attitude to what can and can't be afforded. Isn't this what Martin has been trying to do, since he started this site? Why should anyone take out any form of a loan for this kind of a purpose? Plastic, mass-produced, over-packaged toys will be forgotten once the next consumer 'must-have' comes along. I would prefer simple presents which were lovingly chosen to anything that China can turn out.

The best gift any parent can give any child is to lovingly bring them up with strong values, with a sense of what matters in life and what doesn't. After all, for many people Christmas has lost its religious significance, it's just a date on the calendar apart from being a day off work/school. So why go into debt for it?

Last year DH and I were away for Christmas, we exchanged presents at breakfast-time on Christmas morning, and they were presents we'd chosen beforehand but kept 'secret' and specially-wrapped. Mine was second-hand but we had chosen it together in the local jeweller's. A few weeks after that my eldest granddaughter was given the keys to a council flat after being homeless. Most of the household goods she has acquired are second-hand, either from friends or through Freecycle. I was able to supply her with a complete set of bedding, bedroom curtains, towels and bathroom mats - thank goodness for internet shopping! She didn't turn her nose up at a second-hand bed and mattress through Freecycle. It was a lot better than where she had been sleeping - on her uncle's sofa.

What we give and what we leave to our children/grandchildren, really, are values and standards by which they can live their lives. Those are a lot more valuable than the latest consumer goods. Many people are in a heck of a mess, we see them on here, and growing up expecting that parents will borrow to buy toys is a start to that kind of a mindset.

Margaret

You have completely missed my point.

margaretclare

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

You have completely missed my point.

No, I believe that you have missed mine. By sneeringly assuming that I was advocating a return to decades when there was more privation than there is now, you attempted to make a cheap point by writing me off as an outdated fuddy-duddy who was out of touch. Anyone who knows me is well aware that this is not what I am.

The form of bullying that exists now - children being bullied by their peers if they don't have what everyone else has, children in turn bullying their parents to 'buy me this and that', parents then not being able to pay their loans and being bullied by loan providers - should be recognised and resisted. There are many parts of the world where children die of hunger, thirst, disease, you name it. No child ever dies as a result of not having the latest plastic toy.

Margaret

Errata

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

Hand knitted jumpers, second hand toys, not having the latest plastic toys. Yes it would be great to go back in time and live in the 50's. Whilst we are at it, why not re-introduce ration books. 2 ozs of cheese and butter a week, a loaf of bread, 8 ozs of meat. Great! Or we could go and live in Romania.

Down with progress. Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

You forgot to mention the food parcels from the USA, Australia and South Africa
Times change, and mostly for the better and sometimes for the worse.

inmypocketnottheirs

margaretclare wrote: »

No, I believe that you have missed mine. By sneeringly assuming that I was advocating a return to decades when there was more privation than there is now, you attempted to make a cheap point by writing me off as an outdated fuddy-duddy who was out of touch. Anyone who knows me is well aware that this is not what I am.

The form of bullying that exists now - children being bullied by their peers if they don't have what everyone else has, children in turn bullying their parents to 'buy me this and that', parents then not being able to pay their loans and being bullied by loan providers - should be recognised and resisted. There are many parts of the world where children die of hunger, thirst, disease, you name it. No child ever dies as a result of not having the latest plastic toy.

Margaret

Exactly..... as I said you have completely missed my point.

seven-day-weekend

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

Exactly..... as I said you have completely missed my point.

So what IS your point then?