Solar ... In the news

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Article with some interesting numbers and conclusions:

'Green taxes' fight energy bills not fuel them

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2013/oct/10/green-taxes-energy-bill-fuel-sse-price-rising



Mart.

That article shows the average bill today as £1,267 with £112 the cost of Green and Social levies.

I cannot understand the following statement:

By 2020 the average bill is expected to be £1,331 with £286(21.5%) attributable to green subsidies.

Without these and other green measures the same bill would stand £166 higher at £1,496.

From a whole variety of sources including Ofgem the average gas/electricity price in December 2012 was £1,342.

However does the article state that in 7 years time(by 2020) the total bill will be £1,331 or £1,617(£1,331 + £286)?

Bear in mind that £286 is 21.5% of £1,331 so it appears that they are claiming that by 2020 bills will only have increased by
5% from their figure of £1,267

Can anyone please explain if there is a different interpretation of those figures.

Cardew

More News:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10373773/Tata-UK-manufacturing-revival-threatened-by-green-levies.html

Martyn1981

The Daily Mail is having a bit of a rant, but the article does include breakdowns, so might be of interest.

It does start of with:

The Mail on Sunday today reveals the real cause of soaring energy costs – a bewildering web of green taxes and subsidies which add £132 to the average household’s bill.

but in fairness, later on it says that these are only 1/3 of the increase.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2456760/Red-Eds-great-green-obsession--real-reason-YOUR-gone-roof-The-hidden-subsidies-household-pays-year-thanks-Milibands-laws.html

One thing I found interesting was their attempt to undermine efficiency savings:

Q. But presumably we benefit from efficiency savings?
A. That’s what the DECC would like you to believe. It says modern appliances and insulation will make us use less power and gas. But modern insulation is expensive. And replacing your TV, washing machine and everything else isn’t cheap.

Is there anything cheaper and more cost effective than simple insulation (loft and CWI) and low energy lighting? Also (and whilst it will depend on your interpretation) do more efficient TV's and washing machines cost 'anything'? Their prices have been falling over time (negating any additional efficiency cost increase), and would normally be replaced as part of household expenditure as and when necessary.

Mart.

[Deleted User]

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Is there anything cheaper and more cost effective than simple insulation (loft and CWI) and low energy lighting? Also (and whilst it will depend on your interpretation) do more efficient TV's and washing machines cost 'anything'? Their prices have been falling over time (negating any additional efficiency cost increase), and would normally be replaced as part of household expenditure as and when necessary.

Mart.

Is it just me...

Trouble is I've spent shed loads on insulation, LEDs, CWI, appliances, solar PV, solar immersion, ASHP etc...

But with 10%+ rises in utilities year in year out I'm not seeing a drop in £££s. Yes I suppose I am saving compared to doing nothing but with being on a salary freeze for 4-5 years now I getting more than a little fed up with 'spend to save' ...

It's so much cheaper and easier to just live more simply and turn stuff off

That's my news...

Goes off foraging for free weed oops wood...

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

.... Is there anything cheaper and more cost effective than simple insulation (loft and CWI) and low energy lighting? Also (and whilst it will depend on your interpretation) do more efficient TV's and washing machines cost 'anything'? Their prices have been falling over time (negating any additional efficiency cost increase), and would normally be replaced as part of household expenditure as and when necessary.

Mart.

Agree, must be written by a complete numpty. Usually a couple of hundred pounds spent on loft insulation shows an incredible return - even doubling ours from 'best practice' made the house warmer and had a relatively short return period .... then there's the TV ... early generation 42" plasma units probably average >250W whilst a decent 42" LED costing ~£350-£400 will be <50W, so that's 1kWh/day saving if you only use the TV for 5Hrs (5pm-10pm) - payback becomes somewhere around 7years (375/(365*0.15)), but, then again, there are many using their TVs for an average of 10 or 15Hrs/day for company or to distract the 'kids' etc .. in which case the 'investment' could show a return in just over 2 years ...

... I just find the stupidity of some to be totally incredible ....

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

Hiya Z, you've got me thinking!

I did my loft before the subsidies came out, so paid about £15 a roll. Cost was ~£90 so probably 200% return pa.

CFL's were also a bit expensive 15 years ago, so tended to buy when BOGOF, so £3.50 each, again, probably 200% return pa on high use, down to 50% on low use.

CWI was subsidised, I think it cost me £140, so probably 'only' a 100% return pa.

Had a thunk about the white goods and the telly example you gave, as we recently went from a 32inch LCD (180W) to a 39inch LED (54W). Not disagreeing with your numbers, but taking it a step further, assuming most people will buy tellys (and white goods anyway), then really it's only the 'extra' cost of the higher efficiency that is relevant.

So taking your upper figure of £400 (our telly was £380), and assuming an extreme opposite end of £300 for a non-efficient but otherwise identical model (if there'd been no pressure to improve). Then we have an investment of £100. If leccy costs 14p (mix of tariffs SC/twin tariff/all in) then that works out at 714hrs use to breakeven, or 2 years at only 2 hrs per day.

Not sure what you think, but if I pull numbers out of the air, I'd guess the efficiency costs are nearer to £20 (than £100) with mass production, and telly use nearer to your 5 hrs per day.

I know there are big issues too focus on too, but can't understand why the DM would belittle all of this 'small stuff', it really does add up.

End of waffle.

Mart.

tunnel

My dads been cold called today about solar panels, i'm a bit sceptical as the company has told him that there's grants available, apparently because of the possibility of black outs the government want everyone to install panels.

Er....did I miss something in the news?

So glad he rang me so I can arrange to be there when they come over tomorrow.:eek:

penrhyn

If there is a power cut the system switches off.
I had a similar call from the green deal cowboys, looks like they have moved on from double glazing and accidents at work.

spgsc531

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/take/myth-busting-germanys-energy-transition/1275


Certain people on here must be getting pretty red faces by now..

penrhyn

Time for a meaningful poster.