Solar ... In the news

Pile_o_stone

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

Obviously this is a global story, and not UK specific, as lower PV generation (kWh/kWp) in Northern Europe will mean higher costs of generation, than PV that is ideally located. But the direction of travel is the same, with new solar starting to beat existing FF powerstations on price.

Solar Power = “Cheapest Electricity In History”

The International Energy Agency has a long history in fossil fuels. It is not the first, second, or third organization that would come to mind when thinking of renewable energy bulls or fans. However, its latest report indicates that solar power is now the “cheapest electricity in history.”

The International Energy Agency (IEA) said much more than this in its 464-page World Energy Outlook 2020, but when it comes down to it, this is the line that matters most. The past decade has shown tremendous growth in solar power and wind power worldwide, but the next decade is where they’ll really shine, because the key crossover points have now occurred (like solar becoming cheaper than every other electricity source, on average) or will soon occur (like electricity from new solar power plants becoming cheaper than electricity from existing fossil fuel power plants).

I don’t recall seeing any mention of battery storage in that article.

The author states (before he gives a huge plug for Tesla and his referral code)

The implication of the first matter is clear — it becomes illogical to build more expensive new power plants that also pollute when you can build cheaper solar power plants.

This is the problem with CleanTechnica articles - a complete lack of objectivity. Solar is great during daylight hours but without storage is useless when the sun isn’t shining and that’s at least 50%of the time. We have seen the problems with the California grid because it relies heavily on solar power and there is insufficient storage. 

If you are so naive go build your grid based on solar power plants only if you think it will work. 

I am all for solar and wind so long as there is some back up to keep the lights on. In states like California where the sunshine is far more reliable and predictable than here it may possible to base all your generation on solar but you are going to need a lot of storage to make it work and that costs money - is solar then still the cheapest form of providing guaranteed supply? 

Why can’t solar (and wind) advocates be honest and admit that. Tell us please what it will actually cost to provide a 100% renewables powered grid 100% of the time compared to gas. Then we can have a sensible discussion about how and when we can integrate more solar and wind into the grid and reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Until then it’s just idealistic nonsense claiming it becomes illogical to build more expensive new power plants when you can build cheaper solar power plants and ignoring the cost of storage to make it work. 

Just a thought Ken, but rather than following me around from thread to thread, ranting and making up silly claims such as running the World on solar only, something nobody is suggesting, why don't you just pop me on ignore. You complain about all the sources I quote, so clearly they are not of interest to you.
So just like the energy thread, the investment thread and the BEV thread, rather than spoil and disrupt, just pop me on ignore and you'll never be bothered by me again.
Many thanks.

It’s not about you just what you post. If you are going to post articles from CleanTechnica that ignore the realities of implementing renewables I will continue to point out the fallacies in what you post. When you post something sensible I give you the thumbs up.

I acknowledge that wind and solar are already cheaper than fossil fuels in some circumstances and they will only get cheaper so they should and will be an increasingly important part of our grid. Without storage though the marginal benefit of each new solar or wind farm decreases and storage must be our priority as I have explained on the AGE thread. 

Other than JoeFizz no one else on here will admit that weaknesses in our grid are developing as we roll out renewables without a commensurate increase in storage to provide the back up that FF have traditionally provided. 

My argument is not with renewables - how many times do I have to say that I am pro renewables - it is how it is being rolled out. We can not replace 1GW of FF generation capacity with 1 GW or even 10GW of renewable capacity because renewables are just too intermittent. We need storage and lots of it to make renewables work. 

So my point, in the post you complained about, was that CleanTechnica can’t acknowledge that because when you add in the cost of storage the sums don’t look quite so rosy. They can’t acknowledge it because, like you, they only want to push the good news and ignore the inconvenient truth. And that is why California one of the beacons of renewable energy have ended up with a lop sided grid which is not fit for purpose once the sun goes down.

Let’s hope we don’t make the same mistake here. 

The article is about the falling cost of PV. You are trying to start yet another argument by falsely diverting into claims about ignoring storage, or an all PV future. Yet again you are stretching for no purpose other than thread disruption.
This is simply whataboutery and has nothing to do with the article. A mixed bag of RE and storage is discussed all the time both on the G&E board, and by Cleantechnica, as I'm sure you are well aware.
So please, I'm asking nicely, yet again - rather than constantly trying to start arguments and disrupt threads with your 'interpretation of the facts', just pop me on ignore.

The whole point of Ken is to start arguments and disrupt threads, using any means possible. This is why he'll never put you on ignore. He made a mistake when he flounced out of your Green Energy thread and created his own because:
a) few people contribute to his thread and so it generally consists of him and a couple of cronies agreeing with each other that renewables suck.
b) He can't disrupt the Green Energy thread because of his flounce. Most unsatisfactory for someone who craves attention.

Martyn1981

Another good news story for solar, with some confusing numbers, so best to just quote the last paragraph for a summing up.

Trapping Light Inside Solar Cells Can Boost Solar Panel Output By 125%

I have seen some headlines pertaining to this story that suggest the researchers have figured out how to get ten times more electricity from a photovoltaic cell. That is clearly wrong. What they have done is find a way to use one tenth the amount of photovoltaic silicon to make solar panels. Thinner cells mean the silicon is used more efficiently, which could reduce the cost of solar panels. They may also allow lighter, more flexible solar panels. No matter how you slice it, this research is good news for the transition away from fossil fuels and toward zero emission electricity.

Pile_o_stone

Martyn1981 said:

Another good news story for solar, with some confusing numbers, so best to just quote the last paragraph for a summing up.

Trapping Light Inside Solar Cells Can Boost Solar Panel Output By 125%

I have seen some headlines pertaining to this story that suggest the researchers have figured out how to get ten times more electricity from a photovoltaic cell. That is clearly wrong. What they have done is find a way to use one tenth the amount of photovoltaic silicon to make solar panels. Thinner cells mean the silicon is used more efficiently, which could reduce the cost of solar panels. They may also allow lighter, more flexible solar panels. No matter how you slice it, this research is good news for the transition away from fossil fuels and toward zero emission electricity.

It's interesting to wonder how solar panels will have changed by the time we all start replacing our current ones at the end of their lives in 20 odd years time. Forget 4Kw, we'll have a megawatt power station on our rooftops. That should get us through the winter

EVandPV

Pile_o_stone said:

Martyn1981 said:

Another good news story for solar, with some confusing numbers, so best to just quote the last paragraph for a summing up.

Trapping Light Inside Solar Cells Can Boost Solar Panel Output By 125%

I have seen some headlines pertaining to this story that suggest the researchers have figured out how to get ten times more electricity from a photovoltaic cell. That is clearly wrong. What they have done is find a way to use one tenth the amount of photovoltaic silicon to make solar panels. Thinner cells mean the silicon is used more efficiently, which could reduce the cost of solar panels. They may also allow lighter, more flexible solar panels. No matter how you slice it, this research is good news for the transition away from fossil fuels and toward zero emission electricity.

It's interesting to wonder how solar panels will have changed by the time we all start replacing our current ones at the end of their lives in 20 odd years time. Forget 4Kw, we'll have a megawatt power station on our rooftops. That should get us through the winter

Hopefully by then, we'll be able to plug an EV in and have it charge 350 miles in 5 minutes flat from 100% surplus PV. 

silverwhistle

"If you are so naive go build your grid based on solar power plants only if you think it will work."
Straw man argument. It's a pretty old and historic one too which has been around since RE started to increase in importance.
"Other than JoeFizz no one else on here will admit that weaknesses in our grid are developing ..."

'Admit'? Tabloid newspaper style posting, implying there is some guilt or doubt on the issue, and again untrue. Somebody on another thread (not Martyn!) has called you out as a troll; a harsh judgment perhaps but you do always seem to be uncritical of other disruptive or time wasting posters on here, or of those you agree with. 

It may be unfair but the  impression I get is that you're the sort of person to be more worried about unparliamentary language than the vote against helping to feed children adequately.

Martyn1981

Pile_o_stone said:

Martyn1981 said:

Another good news story for solar, with some confusing numbers, so best to just quote the last paragraph for a summing up.

Trapping Light Inside Solar Cells Can Boost Solar Panel Output By 125%

I have seen some headlines pertaining to this story that suggest the researchers have figured out how to get ten times more electricity from a photovoltaic cell. That is clearly wrong. What they have done is find a way to use one tenth the amount of photovoltaic silicon to make solar panels. Thinner cells mean the silicon is used more efficiently, which could reduce the cost of solar panels. They may also allow lighter, more flexible solar panels. No matter how you slice it, this research is good news for the transition away from fossil fuels and toward zero emission electricity.

It's interesting to wonder how solar panels will have changed by the time we all start replacing our current ones at the end of their lives in 20 odd years time. Forget 4Kw, we'll have a megawatt power station on our rooftops. That should get us through the winter

Yes the news on PV is incredible, and we have moved so, so far in just 10yrs, with costs tumbling, popularity rising and the increased integration of other technologies such as batteries, heat pumps, diverters, BEV's etc..

It's almost impossible to believe these days that when the UK Gov got behind PV a decade ago, these threads were full of FUD'sters, trolls and prize muppets attacking PV with nonsense claims and strawman arguments such as the sun doesn't shine at night, you can't run a country on PV alone, and none of us understand the importance and scale of storage.

We've come so far. 

Pile_o_stone

silverwhistle said:

"If you are so naive go build your grid based on solar power plants only if you think it will work."
Straw man argument. It's a pretty old and historic one too which has been around since RE started to increase in importance.
"Other than JoeFizz no one else on here will admit that weaknesses in our grid are developing ..."

'Admit'? Tabloid newspaper style posting, implying there is some guilt or doubt on the issue, and again untrue. Somebody on another thread (not Martyn!) has called you out as a troll; a harsh judgment perhaps but you do always seem to be uncritical of other disruptive or time wasting posters on here, or of those you agree with. 

It may be unfair but the  impression I get is that you're the sort of person to be more worried about unparliamentary language than the vote against helping to feed children adequately.

I always laugh when he makes these 'revelations' about us needing storage for renewables. It's like he thinks he's privy to some secret information that the rest of us don't know about. The really funny thing is he is posing on a forum where the majority of the regulars have solar. Does he think we don't notice that the generation goes to zero at night and we are all sat in the dark wondering what happened and wishing someone would come up with an invention to solve this problem.

I popped him on the New and Improved Ignore that doesn't display that daft 'XXX has posted a message but you can't see if because you have him on Ignore". They just vanish. I have to say it's really quite nice. Like having a volume control on your kids when you're trying to relax on holiday.

Coastalwatch

An impressive contribution by Solar to Australia's mix in the last three months with rooftop solar providing the majority of it. My, they must be putting them on the majority of properties over there in that case!

Renewable electricity share records tumble, rooftop PV leading the way

November is still in its infancy but Australia’s National Electricity Market (NEM) is on track to record its third consecutive month of achieving more than 30% renewable energy.

Data provided by OpenNem.org.au shows that in the first few days of November, renewables have delivered record shares of electricity in the NEM, including a high of 51% on the first day of the month. Solar PV dominated the renewables, delivering a 43.3% share at midday on November 1 with rooftop modules responsible for a staggering 30.1% or 6,703 MW.

Simon Holmes a Court, a senior advisor to the University of Melbourne-based Energy Transition Hub, labelled the mark a new record for solar power in Australia.

“This was thought impossible just a few years ago,” he tweeted.

“We really need to start documenting naysayers’ claims … they’re going to be regularly humiliated by reality over coming years.”

The 50% milestone was surpassed again just two days later with a 50.3% or 12,635 MW share of electricity in the NEM coming from renewables. Rooftop solar again dominated with 29.6% or 7,427 MW while utility PV delivered 7.8% or 1,960 MW. Wind delivered 11.2% or 2,822%.

The new daily highs come with Australia having achieved record levels of renewable generation in the past two months. September 2020 was the first month the NEM has recorded more than 30% share of electricity coming from renewables. That feat was repeated in October and if current figures continue the 30% mark will again be surpassed for the month of November.

https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2020/11/06/renewable-electricity-share-records-tumble-rooftop-pv-leading-the-way/?utm_source=pv+magazine+USA&utm_campaign=c2aae31597-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_80e0d17bb8-c2aae31597-159341337

Martyn1981

I've probably done the 'that's not a knife' joke to death already, but what the hell ...... that's not a PV roof, this is a PV roof:

UK’S largest commercial rooftop solar project unveiled

The UK’s largest commercial rooftop solar system has been unveiled on the English northeast coast at the Port of Hull.

The 6.5MW array at the port, which is owned and operated by Associated British Ports (ABP), is a collaboration between solar company FIMER and Custom Solar UK.

The array of 21,000 solar panels covers the port’s warehouse roofs and spans 34,980 square meters and more than doubles ABP Humber Ports’ renewable energy generation.

Solarchaser

Martyn1981 said:

I've probably done the 'that's not a knife' joke to death already, but what the hell ...... that's not a PV roof, this is a PV roof:

UK’S largest commercial rooftop solar project unveiled

The UK’s largest commercial rooftop solar system has been unveiled on the English northeast coast at the Port of Hull.

The 6.5MW array at the port, which is owned and operated by Associated British Ports (ABP), is a collaboration between solar company FIMER and Custom Solar UK.

The array of 21,000 solar panels covers the port’s warehouse roofs and spans 34,980 square meters and more than doubles ABP Humber Ports’ renewable energy generation.

Everyone loves a bit of crocodile Dundee 👍