Solar ... In the news

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

In a supposedly democratic EU how can it be that the interests of such a small minority can override that of everyone else.....

It seems to be down to a quirk of the voting rules. The vote to remove the MIP was 14 in favour, 1 against, and 13 abstentions. As 14/28 is not a majority, the motion failed.

I can see the value in a majority vote, but 14 to 1 seems pretty solid to me.

pile-o-stone

Martyn1981 wrote: »

It seems to be down to a quirk of the voting rules. The vote to remove the MIP was 14 in favour, 1 against, and 13 abstentions. As 14/28 is not a majority, the motion failed.

I can see the value in a majority vote, but 14 to 1 seems pretty solid to me.

This is exactly the reason I voted to leave the EU, complete lack of democracy and the inability to reform itself. Plus the rise of the extreme right in Europe and threat it poses to EU policies.

tunnel

Here's a link someone posted on a share forum i follow, makes for interesting reading.
http://www.cleancooperative.com/news/new-wind-and-solar-power-in-colorado-is-now-cheaper-than-existing-coal-plants

Martyn1981

tunnel wrote: »

Here's a link someone posted on a share forum i follow, makes for interesting reading.
http://www.cleancooperative.com/news/new-wind-and-solar-power-in-colorado-is-now-cheaper-than-existing-coal-plants

As LCOE values for alternative energy technologies continue to decline, in some scenarios the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear. This is expected to lead to ongoing and significant deployment of alternative energy capacity.

Yep, T, that's the killer for FF and nuclear, when they simply can't compete on any level.

It's interesting to see an attempt to knock subsidy free PPA deals for PV (and on-shore wind ones should happen this year too hopefully) by a nuclear supporter. I guess the simple response is to ask when we can expect to see subsidy free nuclear PPA deals in the UK?

I think the falling costs of RE have caught out almost all of the detractors now, last year was especially fun, we had these old (and rather silly) estimates quoted even in September:-

Nicolai_Grenovski wrote: »

Hi Martyn - I don't know where you got the £50/MWh for solar from - UK bricing is not the same as elsewhere because it includes transmission costs (per/MWh) which we do not include in European or LCOE pricing.

The latest projections (last November) I can find for the UK are that by 2030 (priced to a 2012 benchmark for their 'Contract for Difference' contract comparisons.) is:

By 2030
Onshore wind: £45-72/MWh
Solar £59-73/MWh
Offshore wind £85-109/MWh
Nuclear £69-99/MWh.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/566567/BEIS_Electricity_Generation_Cost_Report.pdf

There will no doubt be some movement in the ranges here but I don't see how that could be by the margins you suggest - especially as the pricing does not include the extras required to address problems with non dispatchable (intermittent) supplies.
We can use gas, but that defeats the object aas it massively devalues the investment in clean renewables.

And of course later that same month we saw contracts issued for off-shore wind at £57.50/MWh.

So offshore wind at £85-109/MWh in 2030, or £57.50 in 2023, hmm!

NigeWick

Nicolai_Grenovski wrote: »

Solar pv is going to have to become a lot less expensive before it is truly subsidy free especially with the rises in land costs and future value of land to construction.

Seems to me there's a LOT of roof space where solar can be retrofitted or even built in to new construction. Is $30 per MWh that much more expensive than nuclear, gas or coal generation?

zeupater

NigeWick wrote: »

Seems to me there's a LOT of roof space where solar can be retrofitted or even built in to new construction. Is $30 per MWh that much more expensive than nuclear, gas or coal generation?

Hi

In many cases the net effect of solar pv on rural acreage is pretty much zero .. sheep seem to love their facilities maintenance role in the power generation sector, although the pay isn't too good, the job satisfaction with tax-free benefit such as free sheltered accommodation & free as much as you can eat buffet meal service seems to provide a welcome uplift in their standard of living over their rather damp & relatively miserable 'open sky' cousins ..

A good friend of mine has 5MWp of panels on his land & the only difference seems to be that some cattle & sheep have swapped fields ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

On the subject of subsidy free PV farms (and the benefits of PPA's), here's another one, a very big 'nother one!

Second huge solar farm in the works as INRG plots 120MW post-subsidy array

Hampshire-based INRG Solar is plotting a 120MW solar array near S!!!!horpe in what could be the country’s second proposed solar farm of significant infrastructure status.

And the project, which is expected to enter planning later this year, could also be developed alongside a 50MW battery storage facility.

Nicolai_Grenovski

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Yep, T, that's the killer for FF and nuclear, when they simply can't compete on any level.

It's interesting to see an attempt to knock subsidy free PPA deals for PV (and on-shore wind ones should happen this year too hopefully) by a nuclear supporter. I guess the simple response is to ask when we can expect to see subsidy free nuclear PPA deals in the UK?

I think the falling costs of RE have caught out almost all of the detractors now, last year was especially fun, we had these old (and rather silly) estimates quoted even in September:-

And of course later that same month we saw contracts issued for off-shore wind at £57.50/MWh.

So offshore wind at £85-109/MWh in 2030, or £57.50 in 2023, hmm!

It's interesting that yet again you equate fossil fuels with nuclear (other than as baseload provision) - I cannot think of a single scientific or academic group that agrees with you on the subject.

Also, I did not "knock PPA deals" - I simply explained why they are a symptom of a lack of investment in solar.
It seems you are unwilling to discuss the subject - may I suggest you do not raise issues which you do not wish to see discussed on a discussion board.

As to the failure of your BEIS to accurately predict the future cost of wind which is, I note, a range of the three sites (£57.50 to £74.25/MWh in 2022-3 [2012 pricing]) that were a surprise to the entire sector, then surely that is something for you to take up with them instead of constantly attacking anyone who quoted them at the time - your claim that such quotes are an 'attack' on wind/solar is nothing short of perverse.
Yet you keep on raising it as if it is some battle you won against your own country.

So do try to calm down and remain on subject - this is a solar news site, not your personal anti-nuclear blog.

lstar337

Martyn1981 wrote: »

On the subject of subsidy free PV farms (and the benefits of PPA's), here's another one, a very big 'nother one!

Second huge solar farm in the works as INRG plots 120MW post-subsidy array

:rotfl: The forum wont let you type S!!!!horpe! :rotfl: Cos it has a naughty word in it.

Martyn1981

lstar337 wrote: »

:rotfl: The forum wont let you type S!!!!horpe! :rotfl: Cos it has a naughty word in it.

LOL, I missed that. Seems a bit unfair on S!!!!horpe ..... oops I did it again.