Solar ... In the news

Cardew

tunnel wrote: »

I can promote the fact that my panels collect close to £2k a year in FiTs(shhh......don't tell Cardew as he'll have kittens....lol)

That is a mere pittance alongside the Forestry Commission Grants for sustainable woodland that I get for my 1,000 acres on a Scottish moorland.;)

P.S. Don't tell the Guru, he will think I am serious, just like he did about my accusation of him being a director of a Rent a Roof company!

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

Brilliant, exactly the calcs I couldn't be bothered to do myself.

No probs, it's actually a good mental exercise as it's making me think about the subject from all angles.

michaels wrote: »

One question must be the possible impacts of inflation and interest rates rising - if we assume rates remain 2% above inflation and electricity cots increase with inflation then do the answers remain the same?

Hmm! By rates I assume you mean mortgage rates? Interest rates seem to mimick inflation rates, so no real gain.

I suppose they balance out, the cost of the loan is more, but so long as install costs fall, or even remain the same, that is say £4k, and don't go up with inflation, then it should be ok. Remember, energy costs will also rise with inflation. The figures in the NAO report are 2015 based. So the 2027 peak of ~£69/MWh would actually be something like £85/MWh if compounded at 2% inflation. But ..... labour, scaffolding, overheads, profit etc would also be affected by inflation, even if the panels and inverters are still falling in real terms.

michaels wrote: »

And does all of the above imply that if you could get a 4kw install with 6kw storage for less than 7k then it becomes a no-brainer?

Tricky. My thoughts are yes, if you don't mind risking just breaking even. On a G&E board it's easy to point out the environmental benefits and the uplift for the technology long term, but being a MSE site, others may disagree.

I find technology and the new technology fascinating, and as daft as it may sound, I'm thrilled not only to get to watch an energy revolution in my lifetime, but also to take part and have a little play. So perhaps I can justify some costs/expenditure on the basis of a hobby.

Z makes a good point, I'm pricing the batts at around £150-£200/kWh (for 7-8kWh total, 6kWh useable) plus the cost of the management system, two way inverter etc. But in reality the total package cost including install, will probably necessitate batts at sub £150/kWh.

The good news is that we should have a really good idea where things are going by the end of this decade, which isn't that far away, and indications much sooner still. The market is on the verge of popping.

Also, like Z, I'd like to see some cross party funding. I don't know if a true subsidy is needed if the financial benefits to all interested parties is considered.

michaels wrote: »

Presumably it doesn't quite scale for bigger installs and users as then your peak 'over and above storage' output gets proportionately larger?

Yes and no, if you tried to store everything, costs would escalate rapidly for a large system. But, the cost of a system does go down as you get bigger. Remember I suggested £4k for a 4kWp system in the future, but on here we saw RugbyLeague get a £1k/kWp install recently by going very big at ~7kWp.

I also suppose, pondering away, that as you go bigger, you provide the ability to cover more instantaneous demand, which could balance out the need for even bigger storage. Eg if you need 4kW and are generating 3kW you need 1kW from storage, but a bigger system might supply the 4kW directly. Thinking out loud here, so that might be BS.

Mart.

gefnew

Hi all
Have been following the debate about batts and there relative costs,
Just a thought ,what if a small wind turbine was added into the mix of generation It could top up batteries when the sun does not shine and give you more use on the less sunny days when you could draw from batts to cover extra base load in winter or is this going to be over complicated system to have set up in your home.
regards
Geoff

zeupater

gefnew wrote: »

Hi all
Have been following the debate about batts and there relative costs,
Just a thought ,what if a small wind turbine was added into the mix of generation It could top up batteries when the sun does not shine and give you more use on the less sunny days when you could draw from batts to cover extra base load in winter or is this going to be over complicated system to have set up in your home.
regards
Geoff

Hi

That's one of the reasons why I'd prefer storage to be independent of any particular generating technology ... not only would you have the ability to service multiple sources, you'd also have the advantage (subject to control system features) to charge at low cost off peak rates and consume when peak demand charges apply.

HTH
Z

2010

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I would imagine that any decent solicitor should ensure that the lease contract and any associated charge documentation would be made available within the conveyancing process and exchanged/held/stored with the property deeds ... if not I'd be looking to ask why not!

HTH
Z

I agree but that`s further down the buying process.

You ring an EA and ask to view a house and you notice there are solar panels on the roof.
The EA will say anything, not delibrately lying, but not knowing the exact wording of the solar RaR contract.
You ask the homeowner and you`ll probably get the same answer.

Having Googled RaR, it seems different firms have different rules.

One I read actually said the "landlord" was responsible for taking off and putting back the panels for a roof repair.
And if the landlord took too long about the repair they would have to compensate the installer for loss of FIT.

The EA should really have the exact RaR contract details to hand.

Martyn1981

gefnew wrote: »

Hi all
Have been following the debate about batts and there relative costs,
Just a thought ,what if a small wind turbine was added into the mix of generation It could top up batteries when the sun does not shine and give you more use on the less sunny days when you could draw from batts to cover extra base load in winter or is this going to be over complicated system to have set up in your home.
regards
Geoff

Hiya. In theory this is the perfect solution, and the technology below the turbine is simple, as well as 'sunny boys' SMA also manufacture 'windy boys'. The inverters are not identical as they operate differently since the wind could happen at any time, and generation needs to be processed/go somewhere.

The problem - I wanted to do this, and started researching back around 2010, but found my location is poor (there are postcode checkers for average wind speed). I then got into PV and started chatting on some renewable sites.

The small domestic wind turbines, house mounted turned out to be complete failures, often referred to as 'swindlesave' as the promised earnings turned out to be little more than £20 or £30 quid, and that's before the leccy consumption of the inverter that is always on. Net earnings could be zero, vibration excessive if mounted directly to the house, and wear and tear is high particularly on bearings.

I've since learned that wind is damned hard to harness on a domestic scale as turbulence destroys the quality, and forces the turbine to 'hunt' for the wind direction, each time it hunts, it loses power.

The guys I've followed who are mostly off-grid, but some are on-grid with batts, use a rough rule, which is that the turbine needs to be about 10m up, and there needs to be no obstructions for approx 200m in the direction the wind normally blows from, so that turbulence will have settled back down.

[Edit: Quick check reading some comments, and an object will create turbulence for a distance of approx 29x its height, with a peak height to the turbulence of 2x the object. So a house of 8m would create turbulence for 232m, up to a height of 16m around 100m away. Within that zone, generation would be extremely poor. M.]

In an urban or suburban location the turbulence from other properties as well as your own makes small scale wind generation very difficult, if not impossible.

It's also worth noting that whereas PV has next to no economies of scale, they are simply rampant when it comes to wind. Not only is it far simpler to make one 1MW turbine than 1,000 1kW turbines, but the extra height brings the benefit of both less ground turbulence and greater wind velocities. Off shore monsters demonstrate this even better as they reach ever higher for greater wind speeds.

Mart.

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Off shore monsters demonstrate this even better as they reach ever higher for greater wind speeds.

Of course on-shore wind on the top of a mountain is pretty good too. I watched this recently and was simply staggered at the simplicity of the solution to shifting giant blades up a narrow mountain road, but at the same time have to wonder about the meeting when the idea was suggested:-

"Is that a joke?"

"Nope."

"You think that's possible?"

"Just watch me!"

C&C trucks carrying wind turbine blades to the mountaintop

Mart.

tunnel

Here you go wind lovers. A new tree for every ones back garden
http://www.newwind.fr/en/

Martyn1981

Promising news going forward. Thin film perovskite technology hitting 20% efficiency, with potential of 30%. They still need to get it to last longer, but eventually we could see twice the generation from any given area compared to a 'classic' 250Wp silicon panel today, but at even lower costs.

New perovskite solar cell design could outperform existing commercial technologies

Doubling efficiency doesn't just mean doubling generation, it also opens up the potential viability of more rooves, such as off south, small, shaded, partial shading etc.

Mart.

lstar337

First solar panel goes up at Gloucester Cathedral

Today Gloucester has become the proud owner of the oldest building on the world to have solar panels.

Despite its 1,000 years, Gloucester Cathedral has been found to be able to take the installation of 150 of the panels which will provide 25 per cent of its energy needs.

http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/first-solar-panel-goes-down-at-gloucester-cathedral/story-29839316-detail/story.html