Solar ... In the news

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The sun isn't sustainable?
Mart.

Of course the sun isn't totally reliable. I understand it's likely to flare up and swamp existing solar panel systems in around 3,000 million years time then fail completely another 1,000 million years later

Cardew

EricMears wrote: »

Of course the sun isn't totally reliable. I understand it's likely to flare up and swamp existing solar panel systems in around 3,000 million years time then fail completely another 1,000 million years later

Will FIT still be available until then?

EricMears

Cardew wrote: »

Will FIT still be available until then?

Probably not - but given how quickly solar panel prices have fallen thanks to the FIT scheme's "pump priming" , they'll be so cheap in just a few decades that no such scheme will be necessary.

Perhaps not "too cheap to meter" as another well known technology was confidently forecast to be offering by now though.

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

Do you not appreciate that counter argument (I use the term loosely) is silly. Or do your panels generate at night and in bad weather?

Cardew, how many times do you need to be told this, PV doesn't generate at night or during really bad weather. I'm amazed that this fact still surprises you. Have you ever thought it might be useful to learn more about PV?

Mart.

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

much like solar farms were absolutely useless according the Guru and others. Now we are inundated with posts from those same opponents giving details of huge outputs(nothing at night though!)

Naughty, naughty. I'd hoped you were no longer going to post these false claims, based on your lack of economic/accountancy understanding.

But here goes once more:-

Nothing wrong with PV farms, but the UK can reach disruptive levels of PV generation (~10% of annual leccy demand, 30GWp of installed solar) using only demand side rooftop PV.

Since PV is the only technology that can do this cheaply, since there are hardly any economies of scale (but there are some economies of volume), it means that a small(er) demand side PV install has pretty much the same economics of a large farm scale install, especially when you take CAPEX and OPEX into account, and the distribution losses of central supply into account.

Once we consider the other side of the economic balance sheet, income, we note that whilst supply side PV sells at wholesale rates, demand side PV sells/earns at a mix of wholesale and retail rates, giving it a boost.

That's why I believe that demand side PV is more economically viable than PV farms.

This would not be a matter worth worrying about, but unfortunately as no other technology can compete on this basis, it seems to me that PV funding should be targeted onto the demand side, as we need to move away from central generation and give consumers more choice, more involvement, and more responsibility.

Of course PV farms are a fine alternative, but detract from the total volume of energy that businesses and households can generate.

It would be very sad if we remove cheap demand side involvement, and instead force folk to be trapped once again in a central generation model, such as high priced nuclear, yet again.

But the truth has never really been an issue for you.

Mart.

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Cardew, how many times do you need to be told this, PV doesn't generate at night or during really bad weather. I'm amazed that this fact still surprises you. Have you ever thought it might be useful to learn more about PV?

Mart.

It is you that constantly need reminding that 'PV doesn't generate at night or during really bad weather.' I have been telling you that fact for years, yet you dismiss this huge disadvantage as irrelevant.

QUOTE=Martyn1981; The sun isn't sustainable?

In the words of Joni Mitchell:

I've looked at clouds that way.

But now they only block the sun,
They rain and they snow on everyone
So many things I would have done,
But clouds got in my way.

P.S.
Regarding Solar farms, look at your early posts on this subject and you should be suitably embarrassed!

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

Originally Posted by kevin6666
I'm just pro cheap sustainable electric supply regardless of source.





Do you not appreciate that counter argument (I use the term loosely) is silly. Or do your panels generate at night and in bad weather?

Fortunately, I barely use an energy during the night. Anyway we have this... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36187324

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

It is you that constantly need reminding that 'PV doesn't generate at night or during really bad weather.' I have been telling you that fact for years, yet you dismiss this huge disadvantage as irrelevant.

For goodness sake Cardew, PV doesn't generate at night, you need to realise this fact. Only then will you understand why judging a hammer on how well it saws wood, is an irrelevance.

PV generates during daylight, not during the night or during very bad weather. Catch up!

Mart.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

You are getting more like the Guru with every post and have lost any objectivity and indeed much credibility. All that has been stated is that battery storage is currently too expensive. It is you stating ''pv doesn't work when it's dark & storage is virtually useless' and trying(and failing) to attribute that argument to others. We do understand the irony of that tactic; much like solar farms were absolutely useless according the Guru and others. Now we are inundated with posts from those same opponents giving details of huge outputs(nothing at night though!)

Much as you would like to, you cannot simply ignore the fact that PV doesn't work 'when it is dark'; and indeed often very produces little during the day. It contributes nothing/zilch/zero when there is maximum load on the Grid, so we still need power stations to cope with that load.

Obviously when battery storage becomes cheap enough(when??) we will move into a new situation. However from the comments on this thread, people could be could be forgiven for thinking it is only PV generated power that can be stored in batteries?

At least with conventional and nuclear generation it will be possible to guarantee that every storage facility will be used to capacity 24/7.

Hi

Lost, objectivity & credibility ? .... Pot, kettle & black immediately come to mind.

Cardew, after so many years of near-obsessive opposition to pv through extolling the socially unfair arguments of your own much exalted 'guru' you now find that after global FiT schemes proved to be so successful that many have been scaled back much sooner than expected and despite realising that you're at the bottom of a very deep hole - you still continue to dig!! ... Objectivity & credibility? - well, step back a little and consider how ridiculous your own arguments have proved to be. You may believe that you maintain both of the virtues, but think about it - no, wait, don't jump in and respond with the normal drivel, sit back and really think - we all know that you're capable of applying some logic, the alternative being proof of the concept of the 'narcissist's self-belief to never be wrong' ? ....

Oh, regarding "It is you stating ''pv doesn't work when it's dark & storage is virtually useless' and trying(and failing) to attribute that argument to others" .... please try to stay clear of your pathetic attempts to change the context of what others write in order to look clever (ie price vs technical ability) .... it simply reinforces the beliefs that many of us already hold - a simple review of the source post history confirms that what you claim in that statement is utter rubbish ...

In simple terms, continue to attempt to spin and make personal remarks as opposed to logical argument at your own discretion, most of the rest reading will simply stand aside and consider how irrelevant a once welcome & respected contributor has become since rejecting objectivity ....

Z

zeupater

Hi All


... And now for the news ....


I find this to be, by far, the most significant recent announcement related to pv & storage (also contains links to other interesting recent storage articles) ....

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/03/19/tesla-powerwall-compatible-storage-inverter-unveiled-sma/

Spec Sheet here .... http://www.sma.de/fileadmin/user_upload/SBS25-DEN1604-V10web.pdf


HTH
Z