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Now then...lower benefits for the Northerners ??
Comments
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There's a lot more reasons for it than that but yes the different density of the population also makes a considerable difference. The North has more benefit claimants (as a ratio) and considerably lower average incomes (thus lower tax per capita).
Again it hardly matters, all it really shows is the huge extent to which very high paid London jobs skew the figures. Someone sat earning an ok wage in Essex might choose to whine about the North taking all the Southern money but he wouldn't be any more responsible for the Southern subsidy than most people in the North.
My point exactly.0 -
Fuel (Petrol/Diesel) averages 1-2 pence cheaper. Standard cinema tickets, bowling etc are about £1 a film/game cheaper. Beer is considerably cheaper in pubs (normally over £0.50 cheaper per drink).
It's not like going to eastern Europe or anything but the difference is noticeable enough. Most of my more recent observations are from visiting Derbyshire and Manchester. I'm normally at one or other every 2-3 weeks.
If I had to guess I'd say living in Sale (pretty well off Manc suburb) would save you £3-5 a week vs the South East. I couldn't guess vs an ok London suburb as I've never lived there.[/QUOTE
Can't say I noticed petrol being cheaper but it varies a lot in the south east, didn't go to cinema and I don't drink. But prices in supermarket where the same and eating out wasn't much cheaper if any.0 -
Im all for the adjustment of benefits, for the north/south divide, but only if they do the same for tax contributions too, if us up north receive less than the south, then we should pay less too, only fair!
If they earn less, then other things being equal they will pay less income tax won't they. And where things are cheaper they will pay less VAT.
Council tax is probably higher because there's more demand on council resources.
I read today that London & the SE comprises about a third of the national GDP, and I think it said that by 2020 it's expected to be only region in surplus -- tax revenue v public expenditure. It's another one of these unhealthy inbalances, like the over-dependence on financial services. But making benefits and public sector pay about the same in real terms in every region is a sensible way of starting to address it.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
Can't say I noticed petrol being cheaper but it varies a lot in the south east, didn't go to cinema and I don't drink. But prices in supermarket where the same and eating out wasn't much cheaper if any.
I pretty much only eat out if I'm there and it definitely seems cheaper. Chains are cheaper than equivalents in London and my bit of the SE. Non-chain is hard to compare but I think it's cheaper.
I don't supermarket shop enough to notice as I'm staying with people generally so I know our products (fresh meat) are marketed at lower prices at Northern depots.Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
With living costs cheaper up here in the north east, can someone please explain why my band D council tax is higher here, than in any other area of the country?
There are lots of reasons why council tax varies, but quite often the most 'socialist' councils tend to have higher council tax rates because they are providing more services, typically to a less employed population.
The rates also tend to be a result of the management of the councils over many years, not just the last few, as councils build up debts or, in some cases, surpluses.
For instance in Inner London the cheapest council tax is in places like Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster, Wandsworth (which is not so rich but has a high proportion of employed people).
Higher council tax in places like Lewisham, Camden (which is not universally poor), Hackney.
That's not a universal rule or anything, the point I'm making is that similar reasons probably drive the relatively high levels of council tax in many northern areas.
The sad thing is that council tax is one of the most punishing taxes to working low earners because once you cross a certain threshold you have to pay the whole lot from your net earnings. A good number of pretty socialist councils make life much harder for their 'working poor' by providing all the nice support services for the unemployed.
As for lower benefits in the north... for basic things like JSA I don't think there is much point. Stuff like housing benefit is much more important, but that is regionally differentiated (in a very poor way in my opinion, but that's another topic)0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »If they earn less, then other things being equal they will pay less income tax won't they. And where things are cheaper they will pay less VAT.
Council tax is probably higher because there's more demand on council resources.
I read today that London & the SE comprises about a third of the national GDP, and I think it said that by 2020 it's expected to be only region in surplus -- tax revenue v public expenditure. It's another one of these unhealthy inbalances, like the over-dependence on financial services. But making benefits and public sector pay about the same in real terms in every region is a sensible way of starting to address it.
Other than housing cost, day to day living is much the same in most areas of the country as pointed out, any savings i make from being here are swallowed up by the additional council tax bill.
Surely it is better to encourage business to invest in the north, through tax breaks and incentives, this will in turn increase employment, reduce the dependancy of benefits even out the deficit that the area has, and bring the wages up. Much better to promote wealth creation and decrease the gap between different areas rather than concentrate on london, the south and stuff the rest!
(Just to point out, being a higher rate tax payer, i have recently lost the only benefit that we were entitled to through the child benefit, so i've no axe to grind on that front)0 -
Other than housing cost, day to day living is much the same in most areas of the country as pointed out, any savings i make from being here are swallowed up by the additional council tax bill.
Surely it is better to encourage business to invest in the north, through tax breaks and incentives, this will in turn increase employment, reduce the dependancy of benefits even out the deficit that the area has, and bring the wages up. Much better to promote wealth creation and decrease the gap between different areas rather than concentrate on london, the south and stuff the rest!
(Just to point out, being a higher rate tax payer, i have recently lost the only benefit that we were entitled to through the child benefit, so i've no axe to grind on that front)
I don't have the figures on relative cost of living in the regions. But if there is a clear perception that it varies considerably then it makes sense for HMG to index them all and to fix benefits and public sector pay to be the same in real terms in each region as far as possible. If the cost of living does not in fact vary much then neither would the benefits and pay.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
I pretty much only eat out if I'm there and it definitely seems cheaper. Chains are cheaper than equivalents in London and my bit of the SE. Non-chain is hard to compare but I think it's cheaper.
I don't supermarket shop enough to notice as I'm staying with people generally so I know our products (fresh meat) are marketed at lower prices at Northern depots.
I think fuel can vary intra region too quite widely. Locally diesel is £1.43 but if I am passing the best site, 15 miles away (to the south;)) it will be 6/8p a litre cheaper. I don't live in the middle of no where either.
http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/fuel-prices/
Energy doesn't change much. Council tax appears worse in the shires and up north.
I doubt food in prime supermarkets varies much. I accept convenience/local/premium sites will be more expensive everywhere.
It is more likely to be discretionary spend on "luxuries" where you might save due to lower overheads on property - eating out/entertainment. These items aren't likely to be high on the benefit claimant shopping list."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »I don't have the figures on relative cost of living in the regions. But if there is a clear perception that it varies considerably then it makes sense for HMG to index them all and to fix benefits and public sector pay to be the same in real terms in each region as far as possible. If the cost of living does not in fact vary much then neither would the benefits and pay.
If they don't vary (ex property) why go to the expense?
If property is the single biggest factor then by all means uprate London/SE but that shouldn't be at the expense of the rest of the country. If that causes an issue sort that out don't penalise everyone else."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
So basically, if one lives in the Nor'east and expects less benefits - should the taxation rates be lowered proportionally????
And what about those who move around the country for work???0
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