Estimating savings income for HMRC form P161

TomsMom

I have to fill in a P161 Age-related Personal Allowance form for HMRC as I will be 65 soon, and as usual I seem to need someone to tell me I've interpreted it correctly, or not, and a little help.

How do I work out the estimated interest on my bank/building society accounts? They have been added to over the year so it's not as though it an easy sum like if I made a £1000 investment at the beginning of the tax year, didn't add to it, then x 2.5% net interest = £25 (if that's the right way to do it!).

If anyone knows this form (the 04/12 version as in link above) it says

You will need details of all your taxable income, whether taxed or untaxed. You do not need to tell us about any personal, company or Station Pension(s) you are already getting; we get this information from pension providers and/or the DWP.

So it would seem that the only part of the form I need to fill in is the Savings Income part (ignoring my ISA)......yes?????

Sorry for the numpty question, I'm having enough trouble with HMRC and PAYE codes as it is, I want to make sure I give them the correct information on this form.

zygurat789

Age related personal allowances will be reduced if total taxable income is greater than £26,100 next year. If your total taxable income is less than this then it doesn't really matter if you don't get it quite right.
All they are looking to do is make sure that you pay, approimately, the right tax. There is no way the code number can be used to deduct your correct tax if your taxable income is over £26,100 and it will have to be sorted through a tax return.
Age related allowances are being made redundant, a privledge for which you will pay dearly, in the next couple of years.

TomsMom

zygurat789 wrote: »

Age related personal allowances will be reduced if total taxable income is greater than £26,100 next year. If your total taxable income is less than this then it doesn't really matter if you don't get it quite right.
All they are looking to do is make sure that you pay, approimately, the right tax. There is no way the code number can be used to deduct your correct tax if your taxable income is over £26,100 and it will have to be sorted through a tax return.
Age related allowances are being made redundant, a privledge for which you will pay dearly, in the next couple of years.

Thanks Zygurat, although your last sentence is not good news .

My income is nowhere near £26,100. I do self-assessment tax returns (started when OH and I were self employed, and they're still asking for them now I'm retired and widowed).

So I could put a figure similar to the amounts both OH and I received together last year (his savings came to me and the total is much the same now) but maybe reduce it slightly due to interest rates being a bit lower?

nomunnofun

TomsMom wrote: »

Thanks Zygurat, although your last sentence is not good news .

My income is nowhere near £26,100. I do self-assessment tax returns (started when OH and I were self employed, and they're still asking for them now I'm retired and widowed).

So I could put a figure similar to the amounts both OH and I received together last year (his savings came to me and the total is much the same now) but maybe reduce it slightly due to interest rates being a bit lower?

As zygurat says, there is no need to get hung up about it - a P161 is used to determine your income, generally for the purposes of working out age allowance. Put in your best estimate.

On the SA front, I would ring up now and get off the system - before the notices to file are issued in April for next year.

TomsMom

nomunnofun wrote: »

As zygurat says, there is no need to get hung up about it - a P161 is used to determine your income, generally for the purposes of working out age allowance. Put in your best estimate.

On the SA front, I would ring up now and get off the system - before the notices to file are issued in April for next year.

Thanks, I'll put in something similar to last year then.

Is there any benefit of not doing self assessment?

They really have seemed to have done a gigantic c*ck up for the tax year 2011-12 but there have been a lot of changes, i.e. my husband passed away so his annuities passed on to me thereby increasing my income, then they mistook one of the figures I gave - a lump sum as part payment of his employer's spouse's pension - and took that amount as monthly income, and I ended up having about 10 coding notices in the space of a couple of weeks to cover three small sources of income.

bubbles42

My sister has received a P161 but she emigrated to Australia over 40 years ago and became an Australian citizen many years ago.The letter was Dated 30th Nov2012.posted 10/1/2013 in Malta.

The tone of the letter implies she must fill the form out which is asking for savings account details etc. Is this a mistake by HMRC or is a plishing attempt?
What would be the recommend course of action for her?
Thanks

TomsMom

bubbles42 wrote: »

My sister has received a P161 but she emigrated to Australia over 40 years ago and became an Australian citizen many years ago.The letter was Dated 30th Nov2012.posted 10/1/2013 in Malta.

The tone of the letter implies she must fill the form out which is asking for savings account details etc. Is this a mistake by HMRC or is a plishing attempt?
What would be the recommend course of action for her?
Thanks

My form did not require any account details, just an estimate of the expected amount of interest in total, the actual details of the account would be nothing to do with HMRC, they would just need to know the amount of the interest.

I would say it seems like it's a way of trying to get her account details by some unscrupulous person. Does your sister receive a state pension from the UK? (I don't know what happens once you emigrate, especially if you have taken that country's citizenship.) Just to make sure you could contact HMRC and ask if this is normal. My form came from Cardiff and I have a phone number for them if you want it but if your sister's is from a different PAYE office I would check the number on HMRC's website rather than use the number on the letter just in case it is a scam.

System

bubbles42 wrote: »

My sister has received a P161 but she emigrated to Australia over 40 years ago and became an Australian citizen many years ago.The letter was Dated 30th Nov2012.posted 10/1/2013 in Malta.

The tone of the letter implies she must fill the form out which is asking for savings account details etc. Is this a mistake by HMRC or is a plishing attempt?
What would be the recommend course of action for her?
Thanks

Definitely a phishing letter. HMRC are not based in Malta and the P161 - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p161-man.pdf and P161W - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p161w-man.pdf do not ask for bank account details.

bubbles42

Thanks I will pass your responses on to my sister who informed me the letter is supposed issued by PAYE POBox 400.Cardiff CF14 8HR phone 0845 3000 657 .
She does not claim a UK pension in her own right having only worked 8 years here before emigrating but does get a very small pension based on her husband having worked here for 10 years (She is compelled to claim that by the Australian government otherwise they will reduce her Australian pension as if she is receiving it).

Thanks

TomsMom

bubbles42 wrote: »

Thanks I will pass your responses on to my sister who informed me the letter is supposed issued by PAYE POBox 400.Cardiff CF14 8HR phone 0845 3000 657 .
She does not claim a UK pension in her own right having only worked 8 years here before emigrating but does get a very small pension based on her husband having worked here for 10 years (She is compelled to claim that by the Australian government otherwise they will reduce her Australian pension as if she is receiving it).

Thanks

I think this is a scam but a very clever one. The address and phone number are almost correct, just a couple of slight discrepancies. I think anyone can set up a PO Box and an 0845 number and this is probably what has happened, and with the details being so close to the correct ones the scammers are probably hoping people wont notice.

The correct address is
PAYE
PO BOX 4000
CARDIFF
CF14 8HR

and the correct phone number is
0845 3000 627

So very subtle differences.

So if your sister wants to make absolutely sure then she could use the phone number above.

Under no circumstances should she give her savings account details, they do not require them. The only account details they could possibly require is her bank account so they can pay any pension into it.

It can take a long time to get through and I have found the best time to ring, with the phone answered very quickly after having to listen to all the options, is weekday evenings after 7pm (they are open until 8pm) and Saturday afternoons after 3pm (they are open until 4pm).

Here is the page of contact details for HMRC for income tax enquiries including pensioners LINKY.

TomsMom

Just had another thought Bubbles42 - form P161 is for age-related personal allowance which would be for people just reaching 65. Is that your sister's age? If not that form wouldn't even apply to her.