Return rights – is a shop telling you porkies?

crittertog

Jinx wrote: »

I always thought that the seller and the manufacturer were jointly and severally liable ... Since you have had no joy personally I would contact Armani and return the product to them to see if you got any more joy there.

Nope, there's no joint liability (except where a duty of care exists, e.g. finding a shard of glass in a bottle of beer). However, some manufacturers will respond to this kind of enquiry positively, so it may well be worth a try.

inhibit wrote: »

So am I right in thinking that buying over the internet gives me a 7 day cooling off period? During that time I can return goods and get a refund of postage? If that is the case then someone should tell Boden. It is very clear in their FAQ that not only do you not get the postage back but you have to pay to send items back to them.:mad:

Yes, you have a 7 day cooling off period, and the retailer is normally to refund both outward (delivery) and return postage. However, if they state so clearly before you place the order, they can require you to pay for the return postage (but not the postage to send it to you in the first place).

JethroUK wrote: »

Software DVD, Games, & CDs & computer software come under a different law - because you aren't buying just the medium (a 5p plastic disc)

With regard to defective goods, this is entirely incorrect (see my post further up for why) - the OFT has actually stated this, and there's no mention of this in the guidance on Citizen's Advice's web site, etc.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_what_you_can_do_about_faulty_goods_e/faulty_goods_-_if_you_want_your_money_back.htm

OFT consultation text (contains law as-is, and proposed clarification):
http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2012/october/retailers-of-services-refund-when-content-related-faults-occur-says-oft/

I should add that my posting above is based upon the textbook for my undergraduate law course (a few years ago) and the current version of the notes for it, together with information from the OFT and CAB, as well as a Google search for contradictions of this.

crittertog

princegeorge wrote: »

I asked for my money back several times,orally and in writing, but manager refused - 'store policy', etc ... Afterwards, I asked the manager why he was telling people something he and the company knew to be wrong and contrary to the law. He said he had no choice, if he didn't he'd lose his job. If high street companies operate with this degree of corruption and cynicism, sadfarts aren't much help.

Indeed ... all you can do is report this kind of behaviour to Trading Standards - they may have a word with the company, or if they get sufficient complaints, they may investigate a criminal prosecution under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (unlikely unless there's a large number of complaints, but you can hope...).

JethroUK

crittertog wrote: »

...

With regard to defective goods, this is entirely incorrect (see my post further up for why) - the OFT has actually stated this, and there's no mention of this in the guidance on Citizen's Advice's web site, etc.
....

I should add that my posting above is based upon the textbook for my undergraduate law course ....

Which shows you cant always learn the blindingly obvious - so i'll go over it with a string of facts that nobody needs to be taught/learn


1/ In the case of CDs, DVDs, Games, Software you are not just buying 5p plastic disc and case.

2/ The 5p plastic disc is just the medium to store information

3/ You are actually buying licence to use the information on it

4/ More commonly nowadays this exact same information is bought direct over the internet without need for 5p piece of plastic (called a download)

Hope any school leavers can follow this so far

5/ If anything is wrong with 5p piece of plastic, you are entitled to a replacement 5p piece of plastic to enjoy the information you have paid for

6/ You are not entitled to have a refund on the information its self because this is subject to abuse (PIRACY!) - in the same way you cant get a refund on the exact same information if its 'downloaded'

So if a 5p piece of plastic does not transmit the information you have bought then the only thing you can realistically expect is replacement of a different piece of plastic that CAN transmit the information you have bought/paid for

Likewise if a download fails, the best you can expect is to download again, because you have bought the exact same licence to use information

It because people struggle to understand the most rudimentary common sense that we have to have laws to help them reach the correct moral solutions

crittertog

JethroUK wrote: »

1/ In the case of CDs, DVDs, Games, Software you are not just buying 5p plastic disc and case.

I followed your arguments perfectly fine, thank you (and there is no need to be insulting) - I just cannot find any basis in law for them.

I'm well aware you're buying a licence to copy the software (into memory to run it), plus the actual physical media and associated manuals (if appropriate). This in and of itself does not exempt the software from the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (or Supply of Services Act 1982, depending on whether you consider it a "good" or "service" as there's some contention) - neither the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988, Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992, the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, nor the Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003 contain such a restriction.

However, I can find no reference to what you are stating in law - the OFT don't include it in their guide to consumer rights for shoppers or businesses, it's not in my University law course notes, it's not on CAB's or Trading Standards' guide to consumer rights, and the legal guys providing my home insurance legal assistance say no, and I can't find reference to it on Google. Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite the name of the law you are referring to, as I have? If you're right, you won't have a problem doing this (and if you're not, you won't be able to - note: the answer is not the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, as the exemption within this Act does not apply to faulty goods, only returns made under the cooling off period)...

If you're right, then the OFT, CAB, Trading Standards, the course notes & textbooks for a top 10-ranked university, and at least 2 solicitors are all wrong. Obviously, one would expect the preceding organisations/people/items to be correct - it should be obvious as to why simply stating "they're wrong - the government passed a new law" without reference to said law (or in fact, any statutes or precedents) is utterly unconvincing (and unless you do, I'm not participating further as it's a waste of time).

frugalfran

No, not MSE, although it does remain my usual first port of call. We are in discussion/dispute about floor tiles we had laid which we then found to be faulty and I found these two sites very helpful:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/

and
http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/sogaexplained

The latter is very helpful on all sorts of points - I probably should have known about the site, but didn't, so for anyone else who hasn't found it, I pass it on.

Sunshineflowers

This is interesting as I've just tried to return a faulty playstation 4 to tesco which I brought 3 weeks ago. I was told I can't return it to tesco for a refund or exchange directly because I had to contact sony directly to arrange a replacement. Sounds like this might not have been entirely true.