NHS overtime

Cooper18

I wonder if you could help with some advice for a friend of mine?

She works for the NHS, in a small department that operates essentially 9-5. On occasion they have problems getting patients out of the department because their ambulances (non-emergency ones, so pretty much just transport vehicles) have been held up somewhere or called to another job. This leaves my pal stuck indefinitely with the patient. It seems this happens approx once a month, and it's always her that ends up staying late. One night she was stuck there until 8.30pm. She feels her department isn't safe after hours for various reasons but her managers aren't offering any solutions. The reason I ask is because last month she was supposed to be hosting a dinner party with me as a guest and she cancelled at the last minute as she couldn't get out of work. I've never seen her so upset. Last time she was late she missed a dental appointment and I think she was charged a fee for it.

Legally, can she be "forced" to work overtime when her working day is meant to be 9-5?

Thanks!

barbiedoll

Is she a member of a union? If not, she should join and then ask their advice. If she really feels that her department is "not safe" then she can demand that measures are taken to ensure that she is not left alone after hours or that security is reviewed. As for the overtime, that would depend on her contract, they often contain clauses about "the needs of the department" etc which may cover overtime at short notice...again, the union would be able to help.

Is there no way that her patients can be left in a department which is open for longer, say on a discharge ward or in a reception area?
And why is it always her who stays behind? There should be some sort of rota system worked out so that everyone does their share.

Cooper18

Thanks for the reply Barbiedoll.

She's in a union, and the advice she was given was basically "suck it up, you've been doing this for years and have made a rod for your own back". And before you say it, I think she needs a better union rep!!

I think her safety issue is more to do with the fact that no doctors or nurses are there with her after hours and that if a patient becomes unwell, as they are prone to do, then she is up a creek. You might be surprised how unhelpful a hospital can be when a patient doesn't "belong" to any ward in it.

Her contract is wooly, but I can't understand how she can be expected to work overtime, with no notice, for an indefinite length of time - then be in work the next day potentially ready to do the same thing.

The patients are often requiring care that can't be provided in a reception area, and other departments have refused to take her patients on the grounds they don't want to be stuck with them either...

And it's always her because her 2 colleagues have child care arrangements - so they run out the door at 5 and leave her to it....

gardner1

in which case she should run faster

C_Mababejive

Couldnt she put the punter in a wheelchair and dump them in the A and E waiting room or similar? Shes lucky in some respects. Some people have to do overtime and dont get paid anything for it. Why does she have to "mind" the punter anyway?

FBaby

If it happens only once a month, surely it is not that bad. It is just unfortunate that it happened twice on days she had plans.

Most NHS Trusts operate a flexi-time by which she can take time off in lieu. That's if she is under band 8A as after that, it usually is part of your contract that you might have to work extra hours unpaid.

kazzah60

the first thing I would ask her manager for is a copy of the trusts Lone worker policy to see if any of it applies to her - I suspect that her manager has no idea if it does or doesn't - but it might prompt the manager to sit up and take notice and also it might just afford her some protection

the other thing I would do - even though it would go against my personal principals is simply leave the patient there - but choose a patient who has relatives who would be disgusted to discover their loved one left alone in a department - theres nothing like and article in the local press to kick some butts - I expect there will soon be a rota or some alternative arrangements made

Cooper18

Thanks all.

The punters are sometimes in beds, or need piped oxygen so just dumping them elsewhere doesn't appear to be an option. Theres no A&E. I know she's tempted to just abandon them but her manager has told her she has a duty of care to them and would face disciplinary action if she did. She also couldn't live with herself if she left them. I know it doesn't happen all that often, but it's always her, and it's been going on for many years. Her home circumstances have changed and she doesn't have the flexibility she once had. She also has more leave than she can use so getting more time wouldn't be an advantage to her - she just wants to go home at the time she's meant to. I don't think she gets paid for the extra time, she was told it was time owing or nothing. I think she's being taken advantage of, left open to a potentially risky situation and no one is doing anything to help. I feel sorry for her, but then I'm a soft old fart who hates seeing a woman in distress! I also work in the NHS and this simply wouldn't be allowed to happen in my department.

whitewing

Can she take her lieu time for leaving 2 hours early, say, if she has another commitment? If she's not there at 5pm, she can't be staying late.

Cooper18

That's true Whitewing, I hadn't thought of that. But I think her worry is she has caring commitments now (not children) that mean she has "other commitments" most nights - I think she goes to elderly relatives most nights to feed them and help them with chores etc.

SarEl

Cooper18 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Barbiedoll.

She's in a union, and the advice she was given was basically "suck it up, you've been doing this for years and have made a rod for your own back". And before you say it, I think she needs a better union rep!!

I think her safety issue is more to do with the fact that no doctors or nurses are there with her after hours and that if a patient becomes unwell, as they are prone to do, then she is up a creek. You might be surprised how unhelpful a hospital can be when a patient doesn't "belong" to any ward in it.

Her contract is wooly, but I can't understand how she can be expected to work overtime, with no notice, for an indefinite length of time - then be in work the next day potentially ready to do the same thing.

The patients are often requiring care that can't be provided in a reception area, and other departments have refused to take her patients on the grounds they don't want to be stuck with them either...

And it's always her because her 2 colleagues have child care arrangements - so they run out the door at 5 and leave her to it....

I hate to say this, but if she has been doing this for years as the union says, they are right - in law. She has, through her own actions, made this situation "normal", and therefore contractual. So, are the union correct in what they are saying. Has this been going on without her objecting to it for a long time - and how long?