When is a debt not a debt?

CantPayWontPay

OK, here's the score. I get a letter from Department of Work and Pensions saying I owe £575.16 from 1998??????? 14 years later they decide I owe them £575 for, apparently a social fund loan and income support overpayments?????

I've spoken to a couple of jumped up clowns on the phone, I ask for the original contract with my signature on and details of all payments I made in the meant time(I haven't claimed benefits for about 12 years!!!!)

Now then, they tell me that the original will probably have been destroyed and that they can still claim this money back from me. I can't remember what I had for my tea yesterday let alone what benefits I was paid when I was a young scruff, I want proof so I am not being ripped off... So the phone monkey tells me that they don't need the original contract with my signature on as they are allowed to rely soley on computer records, does this sound right to you:
A) That I can suddenly start receiving letters 14 years after some mysterious overpayment of benefit and
They are allowed to chase payment with out any physical evidence that I have signed for this? In my eyes any body could have had this money????

Thanks

UsetheFORCE

CantPayWontPay wrote: »

OK, here's the score. I get a letter from Department of Work and Pensions saying I owe £575.16 from 1998??????? 14 years later they decide I owe them £575 for, apparently a social fund loan and income support overpayments?????

I've spoken to a couple of jumped up clowns on the phone, I ask for the original contract with my signature on and details of all payments I made in the meant time(I haven't claimed benefits for about 12 years!!!!)

Now then, they tell me that the original will probably have been destroyed and that they can still claim this money back from me. I can't remember what I had for my tea yesterday let alone what benefits I was paid when I was a young scruff, I want proof so I am not being ripped off... So the phone monkey tells me that they don't need the original contract with my signature on as they are allowed to rely soley on computer records, does this sound right to you:
A) That I can suddenly start receiving letters 14 years after some mysterious overpayment of benefit and
They are allowed to chase payment with out any physical evidence that I have signed for this? In my eyes any body could have had this money????

Thanks

Probably Statute Barred...although if you ever claim a benefit off the DWP in future (JSA, State Pension), they will just take it out of that.

Not sure of the legalities around the paperwork/signature mind.

HappyMJ

They can chase you until you die. They can't take anything from you now but they can take the money out of any benefits due to you. This may not be right now as you don't claim any but might be when you are claiming a state pension when you retire.

UsetheFORCE

HappyMJ wrote: »

They can chase you until you die. They can't take anything from you now but they can take the money out of any benefits due to you. This may not be right now as you don't claim any but might be when you are claiming a state pension when you retire.

Sorry to hijack the thread with this question,

I was just wondering how this relates to debts in Scotland, can they claw it back as legally the debt is EXTINGUISHED, would be extremely unfair if they did, just asking as hopefully someone with more knowledge will come along and answer your question.

CantPayWontPay

HappyMJ wrote: »

They can chase you until you die. They can't take anything from you now but they can take the money out of any benefits due to you. This may not be right now as you don't claim any but might be when you are claiming a state pension when you retire.

Then let 'em chase. If this is how the system works I might start withholding council tax etc.. and tell them to get it out of my pension which I won't be receiving!!! Robbing b'stards....

UsetheFORCE

CantPayWontPay wrote: »

Then let 'em chase. If this is how the system works I might start withholding council tax etc.. and tell them to get it out of my pension which I won't be receiving!!! Robbing b'stards....

Withhold your council tax and you will almost certainly end up with a Liabilty Order within months... not a good idea!!!

UsetheFORCE

Council Tax & Liability Orders.



It is important to realise that if your local council have obtained a Liability Order against you for unpaid Council Tax or Business Rates, then you are not alone….during the year to 2009, there were over 3 million Liability Orders granted and with the severe effects of the recession, it is anticipated that this figure will increase significantly next year.
Bailiff action to collect unpaid Council Tax or Business Rates can only begin once a Liability Order has been obtained by the relevant Local Authority. Liability Orders are granted in the Magistrates Courts and very few debtors bother to attend this hearing. This is mainly because, unless the amount claimed is wrong, or you are not the person named on the summons, the Magistrate must grant the Liability Order.
To obtain the Liability Order, a representative of the Local Authority will present a spreadsheet to the Magistrates Court consisting of the names, addresses and reference numbers of those debtors in arrears with Council Tax and Business Rates. This is called a "Complaint List". Unless there are objections, which is rare, the Court merely rubberstamp this list and this has the effect of confirming the legality of the debt. It is very rare to be shown a Liability Order; however you could ask to see it.
By law, the local authority must give you 14 days written notice that they have obtained the Liability Order and that it will be sent to their relevant bailiff company for enforcement. Therefore, it is vital that you try to stop this process if you are unable to pay.
It is worth noting that although over 3 million Liability Orders were granted in the year to 2009 , only 50% of them are actually sent to bailiffs. If you need to make a payment proposal with the council, this must be done within this 14 day period. This is because, once the Liability Order has been passed by the council to their bailiffs, it is very rare for them to recall the debt.
Whether you owe £100 or £1,000, in unpaid council tax, your local authority will charge you a summons fee when they obtain a Liability Order. The amount is set by each individual council and ranges from between £75 to £125 for Council Tax and as much as £250 for Business Rates and will be added to your outstanding debt.
It is worth noting that a Liability Order is not recorded with a credit reference agency and will therefore not affect your credit rating.

CantPayWontPay

UsetheFORCE wrote: »

Withhold your council tax and you will almost certainly end up with a Liabilty Order within months... not a good idea!!!

They are spending my taxes on things I don't even agree with. The fact I never voted tory or liberal, they have no mandate as neither was voted into office yet they spend my hard earned taxes in times of "austerity" on arming folks in different "oil rich" parts of the planet seems like theft? Whilst my kids are being forced to live with me and their mum until they are 25, multi nationals get tax credits and pretend they earn not a penny profit and government grins and looks other way yet they harass me 14 years after one of THEIR !!!! ups???????

This country's ruined!

Gotta find some way of getting the message over to these silver spoon reared toffs that the working man is tired of being taken from to feather their nests and send their offspring through higher education whilst mine struggle to get on an A level course!

poppasmurf_bewdley

You have forgotten about the money so no, of course you don't have to pay it back.

Sorry, that's what you want to hear but it's not what you will get from this forum.

The DWP can claim money back for the taxpayer for as long as they want. No debt to them is ever statute barred. And yes, they can go off their computer records. Nobody these days keeps filing cabinets full of documents - everything is held on computer.

fermi

poppasmurf_bewdley wrote: »

No debt to them is ever statute barred.

Nonsense. They can be statute barred.

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

Benefit overpayments and social fund loans

The Limitation Act says that the limitation period for benefit overpayments and social fund loans is six years.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for benefit overpayments, is when a final decision is made on the overpayment. This is most likely to be a final decision by a local authority, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or a tribunal.

For social fund loans, the cause of action is when the loan becomes due for repayment.

Information To recover overpaid benefits, the DWP and local authorities can use the normal county court route. There is also a fast-track process of registering the debt in the county court, as if it were payable under a county court order. If this happens, phone us for advice.

If the local authority or DWP tries to issue a county court claim against you for an overpayment of benefit, and you think it is statute-barred, you can put in a defence.

However, if you are getting ongoing benefits, the DWP or local authority can take money directly from your benefit to repay overpayments. This is a complicated area, and the law may soon change.

Devon_Sailor

CantPayWontPay wrote: »

They are spending my taxes on things I don't even agree with.

Welcome to a democracy. That has been the clarion call of vast swathes of every population since the vote was invented!

CantPayWontPay wrote: »

The fact I never voted tory or liberal, they have no mandate as neither was voted into office yet they spend my hard earned taxes in times of "austerity" on arming folks in different "oil rich" parts of the planet seems like theft?

Well, serves the easily gullible UK population right for being wooed by such a terminally useless party such as the LibDems. A clear mandate one way or the other was needed and the country bottled it, and now we are stuck with a pathetically inept Coalition that cannot please any people any of the time, let alone some of them some of it! Oh, and they arent arming oil rich states. The oil rich states are buying billions of pounds worth of UK goods, thus directly keeping companies afloat, tax revenue coming in, and thousands of workers in employment. Yes, how very dare they. [/QUOTE]

CantPayWontPay wrote: »

This country's ruined!

Gotta find some way of getting the message over to these silver spoon reared toffs that the working man is tired of being taken from to feather their nests and send their offspring through higher education whilst mine struggle to get on an A level course!

I quite agree. You should take a good hard look at your undoubtedly unblemished record of voting Labour into power for 13 years and give yourself a damn good thrashing for your stupidity. History has shown that Labour cannot ever be trusted with the economy, and always leave office with the country on its knees. Some people never learn!