Self Employment, benefits and expenses issues.

Fillyboo

Hello I was wondering if someone may be able to help me with an issue we're having.

My partner really wants to become self employed full time, but is considering part time at the moment as he's employed.

I was recently self employed but as we were still on a low income and living in a high cost rental, we were entitled to some housing benefits to cover the amount we could not pay.

When giving my books into the council with sales of around £1700 for the year, and expenses of over £2000, I was told an expense (a camera to aid in the taking photographs of products) was not allowed to be considered an expense as it was 'something which grows a business' which they don't take into account. They then issued an overpayment for the housing benefit to the cost of the camera. I couldn't pay it any other way than selling the camera and having to stop my business.

Therefore how can my partner successfully grow a business without all of the expenses considered as 'growing a business'. He wants to be a gardener, if he wants to buy a spade, which is a tool used for the business (as was the camera), how can it be right that we have to say that money used is income instead of an expense?

In effect anything he buys to grow a business will have to be paid to the company bought from and again towards the rent of the house ( if he made any money by the ) I do hope I'm explaining this well, I'm horrible at explaining myself.

Thank you for any help, this seems impossible so we just don't think it's worth it. Any ideas?

poppasmurf_bewdley

You do not say how much the camera cost. For what you describe, a £50 camera would suffice. If you spent, say £500 plus, then no wonder they have removed it.

Fillyboo

My camera was used for photography of products and as use for products themselves. I am a photographer using my camera to take pictures of items for the use of greetings cards AND to take photographs of products I make by hand. It would be great if you could tell me how you could cope with a £50 camera to do that, but thank you for your valuable input.

Fillyboo

I did not specify how much the camera cost as it was not in the interest of my question. My question isn't here to be used as fodder for those who wish to nitpick in a childish way, but for the purpose of finding out how we can make the business work, in order to better our situation. I did not question the camera incident, I simply did not know it was not an allowable expense. It's equipment. It doesn't matter the cost. They cannot tell me how much my equipment should cost to run my business, surely. Again, I did not complaint about the camera, I put it down to experience and moved on, my question is for future endeavours.

poppasmurf_bewdley

Fillyboo wrote: »

My camera was used for photography of products and as use for products themselves. I am a photographer using my camera to take pictures of items for the use of greetings cards AND to take photographs of products I make by hand. It would be great if you could tell me how you could cope with a £50 camera to do that, but thank you for your valuable input.

Ok sarky. For your information I produced a book of 80 pages of colour photographs on local history using a single focus digital camera costing £45. I also used the same camera to produce Christmas Cards of local landmarks which sold well.

If you are, as you claim, a photographer, you should have plenty of equipment suitable for such work already.

It's not the quality of the camera, it's the nut that holds the shutter that makes the difference.

Fillyboo

You are incredibly delusional. Ask any photographer if they can cope with a canon powershot from 7 years ago to take the kind of pictures I take. I borrowed cameras from university and college to learn and now wanted to start my own business, but that's none of YOUR business. I dont really care what pictures you managed to take to make some greetings cards, our kids from the local scout group sold hundreds of calendars at the local christmas market. doesnt mean they have the likes of the Pyramid Group asking them for thier work to sell in Next and Ikea. Don't you have something better to do than start arguments with people asking innocent questions on this board. This is really hilarious. You must be a dream to live with. Is there anyone out there that doesn't have a chip on their shoulder, I'm looking for serious advice and not to be used as a punchbag for someone having a bad day.

Dunroamin

You might be better on the Small Business Board; they may be more tolerant of people who get angry when given advice.

poppasmurf_bewdley

Fillyboo wrote: »

You are incredibly delusional. Ask any photographer if they can cope with a canon powershot from 7 years ago to take the kind of pictures I take. I borrowed cameras from university and college to learn and now wanted to start my own business, but that's non of YOUR business. I dont really care what pictures you managed to take to make some greetings cards, our kids from the local scout group sold hundreds of calendars at the local christmas market. doesnt mean they have the likes of the Pyramid Group adking them for thier work to sell in Next and Ikea. Don't you have something better to do than start arguments with people asking innocent questions on this board. This is really hilarious. You must be a dream to live with.

So we take it from your (non) answers that you bought an incredibly expensive camera, hoping that the taxpayer would fund the purchase, and are annoyed that the council weren't daft enough to fall for your ploy.

Your thriving photographic business with an income of £1.7k a year (that's about £30 per week) and expenses of £2k a year (that's £40 a week) must have its competitors quaking in their boots.

Doubtless, HMRC haven't fallen for your ploy either. Or have you forgotten to register with them?

Fillyboo

Dunroamin wrote: »

You might be better on the Small Business Board; they may be more tolerant of people who get angry when given advice.

I wouldn't get 'angry' if advice were given.

Fillyboo

poppasmurf_bewdley wrote: »

So we take it from your (non) answers that you bought an incredibly expensive camera, hoping that the taxpayer would fund the purchase, and are annoyed that the council weren't daft enough to fall for your ploy.

Your thriving photographic business with an income of £1.7k a year (that's about £30 per week) and expenses of £2k a year (that's £40 a week) must have its competitors quaking in their boots.

Doubtless, HMRC haven't fallen for your ploy either. Or have you forgotten to register with them?

So many assumptions, but you're wrong on all accounts. So ill just laugh and wait for someone who knows what they are talking about.

BigAunty

Are you saying that something the HMRC has permitted you to expense as a legitimate business expense has been rejected by the council?

Have you appealed the HB recalculation?

Do look into how the Universal Credit system will treat the self employed when it comes into force as there is an explicit expectation that the SE can earn the NMW from their business some time after it has been established. Currently, if you work 16, 24 or 30 hours per week, you are grossing about £2 an hour maximum.

Here is some info with links on UC

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4337903

I can't see why the council would dispute gardening tools for a gardener, I'm surprised they have the discretion to reject your accounts - are these self-produced estimated accounts?