Q about income figure when filling in Self Assessment form

TomsMom

I thought I'd asked this question before but I can't find it.

I am retired and have State Pension, a spouse's pension from one of my late husband's employers, an annuity my husband was in receipt of and passed to me when he passed away, plus a small personal annuity.

When filling in a SA form do you put GROSS figures for the private pensions/annuities.

Sstripey

TomsMom wrote: »

I thought I'd asked this question before but I can't find it.

I am retired and have State Pension, a spouse's pension from one of my late husband's employers, an annuity my husband was in receipt of and passed to me when he passed away, plus a small personal annuity.

When filling in a SA form do you put GROSS figures for the private pensions/annuities.

I will be in a similar position soon, and think that the answer is Yes.

TomsMom

I've just actually rung HMRC. I've tried before and had to hold on so long that I gave up (I have to pay for 0845 numbers before 7pm). Just thought I'd give it another go and hoped that at 7.45pm it might be quicker to get through.

I got through quite quickly and asked the question and was told to "Put whatever's on your P60". Blimey, how helpful is that! The chap sounded totally pee'd off.

So I said "The figure on the P60 is before tax, so you want the gross figure on the self assessment form then?" to which the reply was "Yes".

So there it is, you put the gross figure. Glad that's sorted. Now HMRC just want to ensure that those manning the telephones at 7.45pm in the evening don't make it so obvious to the general public that they'd rather be somewhere else!

TomsMom

I've started another thread so this question doesn't get lost in my previous one.

I have a state pension which is, of course, paid to me gross.

I also have two annuities and a private pension (from late husband's employers) which are paid net. I have a tax code for one and the others are BR.

I have a little bit of savings so interest is paid to the account net, HMRC getting their share of that.

I may be having a senior moment, and figures are really not my thing (OH used to do the tax returns before), but if I'm already paying tax on my pension/annuities/savings interest, why do I still owe them tax?

suso

On the return

you declare the gross pension you are receiving.
you declare the gross pensions / annuities you have received
you declare the tax deducted on the pensions.
you declare the net interest you have received

The tax code you have, does the figure of state pension match amount in the code,
Does your total gross income exceed 24,000 for the year? (presumably it does because you are completing returns you have a reduced personal allowance which varies according to your income.)

Alternatively post the figures up and someone will advise.

TomsMom

I thought I'd started a separate thread, maybe I'm going round the twist......... hey ho

suso wrote: »

On the return

you declare the gross pension you are receiving.
you declare the gross pensions / annuities you have received
you declare the tax deducted on the pensions.
you declare the net interest you have received

Thank you

The tax code you have, does the figure of state pension match amount in the code,

The annuity which uses a tax code has a "final tax code of106L on a Month 1 basis". The other annuity and private pension has tax code BR. My state pension is what I think is near normal for a single (widowed) person with full contributions paid personally (or as near as damn it) and it was increased slightly after my husband died - £6435.

Does your total gross income exceed 24,000 for the year? (presumably it does because you are completing returns you have a reduced personal allowance which varies according to your income.)

No, my total gross income from all pensions/annuities (including state pension) is half that amount. Personal allowance showing on the HMRC calculation page is £7475 when I filled in the SA form.

I only had my state pension prior to my husband passing away last year and I didn't have to pay any tax or I received a refund a couple of times. He always used to deal with the tax forms so this is my first time doing it.

suso

How old are you ? or more precisely how old were you on the 5/4/2012

The L suffix indicates that you were under the age of 65 on 5th April 2012, or your total income is over 31,000 (but you have already ruled out the second option.)

TomsMom

64, I shall be 65 in January.

jennifernil

I would just add up all your gross income (either gross up the bank interest or ignore it completely if it is all paid net), subtract your personal allowance for the year in question, and work out 20% of that.

Then subtract the tax already deducted (again ignoring the bank stuff if you did before), and see what the result is.

I take it the on-line calculation is saying you are due to pay more?

TomsMom

jennifernil wrote: »

I would just add up all your gross income (either gross up the bank interest or ignore it completely if it is all paid net), subtract your personal allowance for the year in question, and work out 20% of that.

Then subtract the tax already deducted (again ignoring the bank stuff if you did before), and see what the result is.

I take it the on-line calculation is saying you are due to pay more?

That makes it much clearer, thank you.

I've done a rough calculation and there's only £10 difference between my figure and what HMRC want me to pay, so if I'd been slightly more accurate I'm sure it would come to the same.

I'm puzzled why, if I've been paying tax all along, then I still owe some. But it has been a peculiar financial year with my OH passing away half way through and his annuities and part of his works pension passing to me.

My brother-in-law has had a look for me and he seems to think that the annuity provider hasn't got it quite right. There have been a number of tax code changes through the year, initially when my husband died and my income changed and then with HMRC somehow thinking I was getting over £30,000 p.a. and sending me a code for that, then me telling them they were incorrect and the code changing again, so it's not surprising that it got muddled up. I got sent 10 coding notices within a couple of weeks, some for 2011-2012 and some for 2012-2013. No wonder my brain was fried :rotfl: .

I'm happy that the tax bill seems to be correct (although not happy to be having to pay something I thought was already taken care of ). I will keep an eye on the annuity payments and if they don't seem to tally up with what I have been told to expect then I will contact the provider and find out what's going on.

Thank you for helping me understand how to work it out.

jennifernil

I always look on the tax code and tax deducted as a "best estimate", it is rarely 100% exact.

When you are in SA you get the exact amounts, down to the penny.

OH was one of those whose statement never came in time last January, so, not wanting to be late, we sent what we had calculated was the correct amount.

Turned out he was 5p underpaid, which they graciously agreed to add to this year's payment!!