New Contract am i reading it correctly?

bobthesod

Work two days a week for a charity. and get 11 days holiday on a pro rata basis plus bank holidays. There are several others working 2 or three day a week all different,and at the moment get paid a set amount every four weeks.
A new contract has been handed to me to sign and a couple of things re annual leave dont make sense

The first line says
Your holiday year begins on 1 jan and ends 31 Dec. You will receive a paid holiday entitlement of 5.6 working weeks during a complete holiday year. Entitlements are pro rata to the above for part time employees
This is as now and i understand that ok

This is the bit that i cant figure

Included in the annual holiday entitement are the following public/bank holidays each year with pay or alternative days as decided by us:-
New years day
Good friday
Easter Monday
First Monday May
Last Monday May
Last Monday August
Xmas Day
Boxing Day

Now i read that as, as i work Mondays and Fridays that the Bank holidays will be part of my 11 days making it that i only have 6 days to take during the rest of the year.
A chap, call him 'Alfred', working Tue and Wed will still get his 11 days. (except when the 'xmas break' holidays fall on a Tues/Wed
It was explained to me that it was to make all contracts the same and that using me and 'Alfred' we would both be paid for BH at 2/5 per day rate ( at the moment i get full pay and 'Alfred' gets nowt)
I am not worried about the money, more so exactly how many days holiday will i be able to take at my choice during next year.

I think the word 'Included' should be replaced by 'In addition'
Otherwise when NY/Xmas/Boxing Day falls on a Mon or Friday that will be another day taken from the 11. Esp in the worst case scenario when Xmas falls on a Friday the following Mon becomes a holiday. In that year i would lose another two days

Please tell me i have got this wrong and it normal 'Contract speak'

theoretica

I fear you are reading it correctly and you only have the 6 days to take when you choose. Unless the workplace is open on the bank holidays and under the "or alternative days as decided by us" you can negotiate to work the bank holidays and take an alternative day off instead. Employers have the right to tell you when to take all your holiday, should they so wish.

getmore4less

If they are including the BH in the 5.6 weeks(which they can) then if you use a days holiday for a BH then they should pay you a full day.

What do full timers get before and now,
presumably they got 28days + BH before are there holidays changing to 5.6 weeks as well? thus losing 8 days holiday

2 days a week is 11.2 days they can't round down

bobthesod

This year my leave consisted of 11 days that i could take 'at my leisure' plus i didnt work on the BH ( my days of employment are M+F) My previous job was with BT and their rules were 'very generous'
When i joined i thought it was unfair that i got '5 days extra' ie the M+F BH with pay, when a guy who worked say Wed+Thur got in effect 5 days pay less, but as i said i was still in BT mode and this was a charity as well so...... rules could be different. The management have stated 'nothing will change' and all drivers will now be paid for BH on a pro rata basis so the playing field is now level. Which i might say i agree with. Listening to the manager both me and 'Alfred' who works Wed and Thurs get 11.2 days ( how do you take 0.2 a day off???) and whilst i lose 8hrs pay for Mon and Fri BH and will get 2/5 of that. Alfred now gets a bonus of 2/5 pay for the BH. This i have no problem with, it is the 'inclusion' that the BH would eat into my 11 days by up to 7 days i certain years ( Xmas day falls on a Fri which makes the following Monday a holiday)whereby Alf is on a win-win. Gets extra pay AND keeps his 11 days. Thy have lost a lot of Coucil grans and ned to get the costs down
I appreciate it is legal, but to me it is morally wrong. If we go to the hypothetical case of someone on 1 day a week(holiday allowance 5.1 days) and it is a Monday and in the year when either New Years Xmas,or Boxing Day fall on a monday his holiday entitlement falls to Zero, so he could never take a fortnights holiday except by taking unpaid leave, meanwhile the guy who works one day only on a Tues/wed/thurs only has this problem occasionally.

I would rather lose the BH 2/5 per day pay and have my 11 days back

I know the cynical answer is 'leave' but i like the job.

SarEl

theoretica wrote: »

I fear you are reading it correctly and you only have the 6 days to take when you choose. Unless the workplace is open on the bank holidays and under the "or alternative days as decided by us" you can negotiate to work the bank holidays and take an alternative day off instead. Employers have the right to tell you when to take all your holiday, should they so wish.

I agree, but would add - there is abaolutely nothing to prevent you asking for bank holidays to be unpaid so that you can take your holidays at other times of the year. The employer can do this if they wish. Or they could agree to you taking unpaid leave at another time of the year (since money doesn't seem to be an issue for you). Financially this would make no difference to the employer, and it seems that it wouldn't have a business impact because this is more or less what has been going on already.

It seems to me that the employer is attempting to clarify their contracts and are actually getting themselves into a potentially bigger mess! What happens, for example, when, as they did this year, the government moves a bank holiday to another week - their new clause fixes the days to the days they are normally given, but this does not mean that they are fixed that way for ever! You might want to point that out to them!

sheperdspie

The bank holidays have to be pro-rated too for part time employees.

Full time workers get 5.6 days leave (i.e. 28 days) which includes 8 bank holidays. So they get 20 days leave and 8 bank holidays.

A person working 2 days a week would get 8 days leave and 3.1 days bank holiday.

A 2 day person working on a Monday is likely to have more than 3.1 bank holidays , so will "lose" some of their annual leave to compensate (or maybe you could negotiate a deduction in pay instead if you preferred?)

Fairly standard policy.

KiKi

The peril of working part time in a place that always closes on BHs is that whilst you (should) get the right amount of leave pro rata, you may have less or more flexibility than others in when you take it - the example of working on Mondays is a good one. Annoying, but perfectly legal. And given that an employer can tell you when to take your holiday anyway, the best option is just to not work on days which are more frequently bank holidays, like Mondays and Fridays!

getmore4less

bobthesod wrote: »

This year my leave consisted of 11 days that i could take 'at my leisure' plus i didnt work on the BH ( my days of employment are M+F) My previous job was with BT and their rules were 'very generous'
When i joined i thought it was unfair that i got '5 days extra' ie the M+F BH with pay, when a guy who worked say Wed+Thur got in effect 5 days pay less, but as i said i was still in BT mode and this was a charity as well so...... rules could be different. The management have stated 'nothing will change' and all drivers will now be paid for BH on a pro rata basis so the playing field is now level. Which i might say i agree with. Listening to the manager both me and 'Alfred' who works Wed and Thurs get 11.2 days ( how do you take 0.2 a day off???) and whilst i lose 8hrs pay for Mon and Fri BH and will get 2/5 of that. Alfred now gets a bonus of 2/5 pay for the BH. This i have no problem with, it is the 'inclusion' that the BH would eat into my 11 days by up to 7 days i certain years ( Xmas day falls on a Fri which makes the following Monday a holiday)whereby Alf is on a win-win. Gets extra pay AND keeps his 11 days. Thy have lost a lot of Coucil grans and ned to get the costs down
I appreciate it is legal, but to me it is morally wrong. If we go to the hypothetical case of someone on 1 day a week(holiday allowance 5.1 days) and it is a Monday and in the year when either New Years Xmas,or Boxing Day fall on a monday his holiday entitlement falls to Zero, so he could never take a fortnights holiday except by taking unpaid leave, meanwhile the guy who works one day only on a Tues/wed/thurs only has this problem occasionally.

I would rather lose the BH 2/5 per day pay and have my 11 days back

I know the cynical answer is 'leave' but i like the job.

The way you desrcibe it they are not doing it right.

if you use a days holiday then you get a full days pay not 2/5.

Also part timers doing similar days should get the same holidays this is no hte case from your discription.


What holidays do full timers get, thats the base line for part timers.

From what you have described they don't have a clue what they are doing or are failing to explain it.

There is a secondary issue that if they don't take a holiday day for the BH that you would work and just pay the 2/5 then they ae giving you more holidays than you are due by law.(allthough most places ignore this issue unless they do holidays based on hours worked.

bobthesod

I dont think there is anyone that works full time!! apart from the chap that started the charity, and he is never away from it!!
All the drivers are 'part time' the nearest full time chap is a 4 day worker.
However i will visit and chck my leave card for net year. If it shows 11 days i can book i will let sleeping dogs lie. The only other thing i can do is register my feelings and sign, otherwise i dont work there anymore ( whilst saying i am not worried about the money it works out at a reduction of about £15 per 4 weekly pay)
At present get paid for 8 hrs for 5 BH (using the Mons and Fris only)days at 7.85 ph =£314.00
The new method is being paid pro rata for the hols so its
5 times 8 times 7.85 and 2/5 of that =314/5*2 =125. I can live with that reduction, as i said its the reduction of days off that grind.
I might offer to take the BH as unpaid and move them onto the 6 daysallowance thats only £24.00 per 4 weeks less. Not on the breadline yet!!

getmore4less

I think you are under estimating your loss if you lose the days holiday and only get 2/5 of a day.

Currently you get paid for 52*2 days and get 11 + 5 days holiday

after you paid for 52* 2 less 3 days(3/5 * 5) and get 11 days holiday

I make that 8 days equivilant loss so down £502.


Paying the BH at 2/5nd using a days holiday is just wrong and needs to be challenged

bobthesod

I have had a look at the .gov site on this and it appears it is correct!!
Dont make me cry anymore!!! i thought i was being reasonable on what i might be 'short of' per month