UK education sixth in global ranking

zagubov

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

some possible reasons.

1) The UK is one of the few countries (USA is the only other major one) where rich pupils have more teachers than poor pupils.

2) The PISA (the 3 yearly tests run by the OECD) results are not necessarily that reliable. The UK was excluded from the 2003 batch because of a poor response rate. The decline from 2000 to 2009 seems a bit inexplicable. To go from 8th in maths to 27th seems a little odd. It would suggest that one of those results is an outlier.

The UK perform better in the TIMSS tests (year 8) and are actually improving between 1995 and 2007

3) The best performing countries appear to have more homogenous populations (without wishing to come over all UKIP).

When the Swedes went to study why Finland had overtaken them in education standards, a Russian pbserver warned them the secret was that the 1970s had never happened in Finland.

Anybody got access to this table that's the basis for the thread? And know how NZ cmpares with Oz?

Oh and if the % the population who're graduates is included, has any other country suddenly trebled the number of "universities" in the last decade or two by renaming all their HE colleges? And flooded the job market with graduates in well, ....what exactly are all these new degrees in?

I don't want to shake anyone's faith in the current system here but I noticed that Maths and Science are poor and these are subjects where you can get it right or wrong. And most other countries teach people to be fluent in multiple languages andf they're also subjects where you can be right or wrong.

So we're producing huge numbers of students well-qualified but not in subjects where you can be right or wrong. Kinda suspicious!

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

StevieJ wrote: »

I thought our education system was in the depths of despair?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20498356

The Tory's taking a wrecking ball to education was all so predicatable. Seriously, they are not to be trusted EVER with education.

Our education system was running fantastically but there were way to many state high schools outperforming the private sector schools so something had to be done. What - can't have too many state school kids getting into Oxbridge!


Low and behold this summers mash up....and more to come.

Anyway, we're half way through the coalition's term - roll on June 2015 - can't come soon enough. Hopefully, that'll be the Tories gone for another couple of decades and we can all get back to educating ALL children properly and not just the kids of the richest.

ash28

chewmylegoff wrote: »

i haven't tried too hard but i cannot find the pearson study anywhere. there appears to be no mention of it on their website. some of the comments on the bbc article point out that pearson measures things like "% of population who are graduates" which doesn't really compare the quality of education in one country to the quality in another. i have no idea if the pearson survey does really include stuff like that as i can't find it...

Here's the report

http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/the-report

StevieJ

A._Badger wrote: »

No one who reads this site would believe that educational standards in this country are anything but abysmal - at least, in terms of literacy, though pretty clearly in other areas too.

I have to work with the output of some of these products of child-centred education and it's a daunting task, frequently begun by correcting primary school level errors.

I know it is anecdotal but here is a school where the intake is mixed at best in family income levels, with a high proportion of the intake on free school meals. This is the type of school that you might expect to struggle, but no, this school has performed admirably with mainly happy pupils, low absenteeism and excellent sats results (top 1% in the country for 2011). BTW this is one of those 'child centred' namby pamby Forest schools, I guess it they must be doing something right though As Kenny put it in relation to Finland it does also help that the school is mainly homogeneous in relation to nationality.
From the Ofsted report.

Description of the school
This smaller than average sized school serves a mixed area that includes some social and economic disadvantage. The proportion of pupils eligible for free school meals is well above the national average. The school's population is largely White British, with very few pupils fromminority ethnic backgrounds. The proportion of pupils with learning difficulties and/or disabilities is above average.

http://www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=106195&superview=pri

A._Badger

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

The Tory's taking a wrecking ball to education was all so predicatable. Seriously, they are not to be trusted EVER with education.

Well someone certainly took a 'wrecking ball' to yours. Nasty "Tory's" or semi-literate 'progressive' teachers, I wonder?

Radiantsoul

A._Badger wrote: »

No one who reads this site would believe that educational standards in this country are anything but abysmal - at least, in terms of literacy, though pretty clearly in other areas too.

I am not sure how much you could infer about current education provision based on the readership of this site. I doubt it is big with the 4 to 18 year old demographics.

It is also worth noting that the comparator is the education standards of other countries and not your opinion.

A._Badger

Radiantsoul wrote: »

I am not sure how much you could infer about current education provision based on the readership of this site. I doubt it is big with the 4 to 18 year old demographics

You seem not to understand when the rot began. As someone mentioned earlier, it was most impressively under way during the 1970s. That encompasses the schooldays of many (most?) on here.

Radiantsoul wrote: »

It is also worth noting that the comparator is the education standards of other countries and not your opinion.

My experience suggests the figures are tosh. Most probably they are compiled by the same self-serving imbeciles who wrecked Western educational standards in the first place.

Radiantsoul

A._Badger wrote: »

You seem not to understand when the rot began. As someone mentioned earlier, it was most impressively under way during the 1970s. That encompasses the schooldays of many (most?) on here.

The study examines current education rather than the 1970s, assuming that anyone accepts there is a rot in the system. I am not sure it is something that is seen in the statistics.

CLAPTON

In my view the decline dates from the abolition of the O/L and the introduction of the 'no-one must fail' GCSE.
Once that was done, then it was a given that the syllabus had to be dumbed down so that everyone could pass.

Kennyboy66

A._Badger wrote: »

Well someone certainly took a 'wrecking ball' to yours. Nasty "Tory's" or semi-literate 'progressive' teachers, I wonder?

Between 1951 and 1997 we had 11 (eleven) years of Labour government.

The main education acts of the 20th Century (1944 & 1988) were. Conservative legislation.

The Tories "Its never their fault" is it ?