Does anyone here have an ideological objection to Solar?

jamesingram

Just found this
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/classic
hours of fun

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

As comparisons go, I like comparing the PV FITs budget to 3.5 years of nuclear decommissioning, which consumes energy.

So your justification for FIT is that other projects 'waste' even more money?

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

So your justification for FIT is that other projects 'waste' even more money?

I’m not sure why you think I need to justify FITs?

FITs schemes have been an astonishing worldwide success, and PV in particular has moved from the back of the field, to become one of the front runners in viable renewable technology. So no justification is needed. In fact, until somebody can put forward a cohesive argument to the contrary, there remains little need to justify such a productive scheme.

I’ve heard a lot of noisy rabble rousing since the launch of FITs in the UK, but no structured argument that offers a better solution. So as I say, no need for me to justify FITs.

If your confusion lies in my comments and posts over the last year, then I apologise. I was not trying to justify FITs, rather, I was simply trying to explain to you, the forward looking, and rounded approach you needed to adopt to see the bigger picture here. As I have said to you many, many times, this is not about today, it is about tomorrow.

The realities of AGW are here, and the World’s energy supply mix will have to change to meet the new demands placed upon us. Renewables will play a major part in meeting those demands, and PV is a crucial part of that mix.

This has now been recognised by virtually all nations, and luckily, fewer and fewer people remain in denial over the issues facing us, and the additional costs that have become unavoidable.

PV installs will continue to grow. Panel prices will continue to fall. Energy prices will continue to rise with carbon taxes, CCS, rising gas prices, and expensive nuclear power, and FITs rates will keep falling. But I expect you will remain, a lonely voice shouting at the wind.

Mart.

Fruit_and_Nut_Case

jamesingram wrote: »

Interesting figures I heard from R4 the other day.
Nothing to do with the above discussion , just felt the urge to share it
Social security budget £200 billion or 30% of total government spending.
50% of this budget goes to those over the age of retirement.

How else could we pensioners afford our Solar PV Systems?

Kernel_Sanders

The fact that I have switched to electricity from gas to keep warm and heat water is totally the fault of the government of the day, who decided FITS should be paid on all production regardless of consumption. Had they only paid out on exported wattage but doubled the rate, I'd be back on gas and my neighbourhood would be using nearly all my export instead of the fraction it currently receives.
As has been pointed out, this potential export could be multiplied by considering the reduced inefficiencies of generation and transmission.

tunnel

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

The fact that I have switched to electricity from gas to keep warm and heat water is totally the fault of the government of the day, who decided FITS should be paid on all production regardless of consumption. Had they only paid out on exported wattage but doubled the rate, I'd be back on gas and my neighbourhood would be using nearly all my export instead of the fraction it currently receives.

Just expanding on this,quite a few of my neighbours have had rent-a-roof schemes providing their "free" leccy,before i open my big gob to them does anyone know if its written in their contracts that they can't install one of these energy switches(immersun i believe?) that powers their hot water. I ask as i believe the RaR's use an export meter to maximise their profit with the export. With one of these switches be a good way to dent their profit wouldn't it. Just to add i'm not against RaR schemes,just hoping to help out some of my elderly neighbours.

Cardew

tunnel wrote: »

Just expanding on this,quite a few of my neighbours have had rent-a-roof schemes providing their "free" leccy,before i open my big gob to them does anyone know if its written in their contracts that they can't install one of these energy switches(immersun i believe?) that powers their hot water. I ask as i believe the RaR's use an export meter to maximise their profit with the export. With one of these switches be a good way to dent their profit wouldn't it. Just to add i'm not against RaR schemes,just hoping to help out some of my elderly neighbours.

Rent a Roof customers can use every bit of their electricity without it affecting the income of the Rent a roof firms.

They are paid their money(FIT) on the amount of electricity generated - not exported.

[Deleted User]

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I’m not sure why you think I need to justify FITs?

FITs schemes have been an astonishing worldwide success, and PV in particular has moved from the back of the field, to become one of the front runners in viable renewable technology. So no justification is needed. In fact, until somebody can put forward a cohesive argument to the contrary, there remains little need to justify such a productive scheme.

I’ve heard a lot of noisy rabble rousing since the launch of FITs in the UK, but no structured argument that offers a better solution. So as I say, no need for me to justify FITs.

If your confusion lies in my comments and posts over the last year, then I apologise. I was not trying to justify FITs, rather, I was simply trying to explain to you, the forward looking, and rounded approach you needed to adopt to see the bigger picture here. As I have said to you many, many times, this is not about today, it is about tomorrow.

The realities of AGW are here, and the World’s energy supply mix will have to change to meet the new demands placed upon us. Renewables will play a major part in meeting those demands, and PV is a crucial part of that mix.

This has now been recognised by virtually all nations, and luckily, fewer and fewer people remain in denial over the issues facing us, and the additional costs that have become unavoidable.

PV installs will continue to grow. Panel prices will continue to fall. Energy prices will continue to rise with carbon taxes, CCS, rising gas prices, and expensive nuclear power, and FITs rates will keep falling. But I expect you will remain, a lonely voice shouting at the wind.

Mart.

I wouldn't bother responding... He is very negative about other technologies as well e.g. ASHPs

One thing that really does my goat in is people, not anyone specifically, giving advice about things they have no hands on experience of i.e. don't participate/have a finacial interest in the technology themselves.

That's the downside of the internet, everyone is an expert....

tunnel

Cardew wrote: »

Rent a Roof customers can use every bit of their electricity without it affecting the income of the Rent a roof firms.

They are paid their money(FIT) on the amount of electricity generated - not exported.

Thanks, I was led to believe that they had an export meter,as privately owned PV system owners are deemed to export 50% yet in reallity probably export 75%, would have thought it would have been beneficial to the RaR's to have one. Can go and open my gob now

Tunnel

grahamc2003

jeepjunkie wrote: »

I wouldn't bother responding... He is very negative about other technologies as well e.g. ASHPs

One thing that really does my goat in is people, not anyone specifically, giving advice about things they have no hands on experience of i.e. don't participate/have a finacial interest in the technology themselves.

That's the downside of the internet, everyone is an expert....

Well in the past I have given lots of advice on Mach 24 scramjets for recoverable air breathing space flight, but I must admit, I've never actuially owned one and, at probably tens of billions each, I'm unlikely ever to.

That is another way of saying this view that 'you have to own something to have an intelligent view on it' is rather strange. If you have a background in the detailed theory of how things work, of course you can have valuable comments on them whether you own them or not.

As regarding 'experts' - well Cardew is a chartered engineer, so I would say he is an expert in engineering issues (and any energy topic is an engineering topic) relative to the general population. I enjoy your posts and Cardews - just because they are different doesn't mean they aren't both valuable.

I'd say one problem with extracting correct information from these boards is the few (not including you btw) 'over enthusiastic amateurs' with no basic theoretical foundation, not experts.