My mums ex is trying to fleece her!

Land_Registry

holly_hobby wrote: »

Have contacted the LR rep - hopefully he'll bob up any minute !

H x

Thanks for prompting me holly hobby although found this by searching rather than any message - must take a peak to see how it works.

Guidance re how Land Registry view the different types of joint ownership is provided in our Public Guide 18 . The normal restriction (a form A restriction) used to reflect that the property is held as joint tenants is also provided.

As zzzLadyDaisy states how the 'shares' are apportioned are not shown on the land register itself but sometimes recorded in a separate trust deed, if one was drawn up of course.

Sometimes the shares will be stated in the legal Transfer (TR1) by which the property was changed from sole to joint names. However in my experience this is rare as a) there is no requirement to state the 'shares' percentage as the separate deed effectively relates to the beneficial title and not the legal title (ownership) which is the land register's primary purpose. In most cases applicants will simply tick the box which refers to 'joint tenants' or 'tenants in common' rather than selecting the further option of stating what shares exist.

In your circumstances I would suggest that you consider either contacting the conveyancer/solicitor who dealt with the Transfer to see if such a Trust Deed or other document was drawn up to reflect the percentages etc - whilst there are sometimes other reasons why a form A restriction can appear on the register it sounds as if the reasons are already known although best to confirm as it could be something which the other party may seek to challenge anyway?. Or

You can apply for a copy of the form TR1 and/or the form used to make the application to make the Transfer of ownership (form AP1). The following explains why but read my NB at the end as to

The form TR1 will reveal how it was completed and as mentioned may or may not reveal the percentage share you mention.

If it does not then the form AP1 would reveal what documents were lodged with the application - whilst this may refer to a Trust Deed (if any) it should be noted that it is unlikely to have been retained by Land Registry as the contents are simply reflected by the form A restriction on the title i.e. the title is owned as tenants in common and therefore some form of trust exists, the title need say no more than that for the reasons stated above (legal title yes, beneficial title no).

NB - if you decide not to contact the solicitor/conveyancer who acted at the time then I would firstly write to Land Registry to ask whether we have any documentation which reveals the additional information you require.

A letter/email setting out the circumstances and quoting the address/title number of the property would be responded to and we would advise whether the information is available and if so how to apply and at what cost. Checking and responding to your letter/email does not attract a fee.

The easiest way is by email using the Contact Us part of our website. Complete the submission form with the requested details and it should be considered/responded to within a few working days. Details of where to write to can also be gleaned from the same part of the website but bear in mind the time to post and return should be taken into account.

Any subsequent application for copies of documents should also be completed quite quickly.

Finally, sorry for the length of the post but they often require quite a bit of explanation and the Guide can only go so far.

zzzLazyDaisy

It seems that ascertaining the actual apportionment of shares in a TiC situation can be very hit and miss.

Suppose someone dies not leaving a will and the house is held as TiC but no-one knows who the original solicitor was? Or it might have been so many years ago that the solicitor has shut up shop, or no longer has the file for some reason. Or suppose one party to the TiC goes bankrupt and that share falls into the pot? Or there is a relationship split and a dispute over the shares (as in this case)?

I imagine that the default 50/50 would be applied, but surely there should be some standard procedure for recording the split on the LR deeds, so that when the house comes to be disposed of, in whatever way, the solicitor concerned knows how to distribute the proceeds?

This isn't a criticism of LR procedure, btw, just a expression of concern that there doesn't seem to be any regulated procedure about how the split should be recorded.

Land_Registry

zzzLazyDaisy - Practice Guide 24 explains the subject far better than I could and gives some insight into how, over time, the approach to such things has changed not only from a legislative perspective but from a 'social' one too.

It does not answer the issue you raise re a regulated procedure for recording such information but does hopefully explain how such matters have not, by and large, been recorded on the land register for some time.