Care work, Criminal Record, & Work Placements

earthbound_misfit

I've got a feeling I'm going to get flamed but here goes...
I'm currently on ESA for MH reasons but am hoping to go back to work next year and trying to do it positively rather than being shoved by Atos/spending ages on JSA getting demoralised.
So looking into suitable work...
I'd love to do care work as it's the only job I've ever found any satisfaction in (otherwise skills are creative things that don't pay!) and although it's hard work it seems a hard work I thrive on rather than being draining/provoking anxiety. This is important as I'm terrified of ending up on the dole again, I really want to get employed and stay employed.

Unfortunately... I have a criminal record from about 7 years ago (seems like an eternity to me but sounds so much less written down!). There are 3 offences and one caution, relating to MH problems (was being refused treatment at the time), the most serious is Affray (don't want to write them all but they all make me look like a nutter). All were spent after 6 months, was given a conditional discharge and ordered to pay a nominal fine (and suggested I get psych treatment, which had been the start of this rigmarole in the first place! :mad:). I have also been sectioned by police (under section 136, a brief holding power until you get assessed, not the same as hospital based sections by a Dr.). I have also attended for assessment (with police) voluntarily, the last time being a few months ago. I seem to be somewhat better since then, and the nature of my problems is depression/anxiety/trauma-related issues rather than psychosis. I am waiting for therapy at present.

Want me to look after your Gran yet?!

Thing is, I've worked in care before, actually started when the convictions weren't quite spent! I'm not on child protection or POVA lists, obviously. I was checked against these lists and started work; when the full CRB came through I had 'proved' myself. During my time working there I looked towards nurse training and used the reference to get a place on a sought-after diploma course; unfortunately withdrawn at the last minute due to CRB. Anyway my point is, I can do it, I'm actually quite good at it, but will I ever get the chance to do care work again?
I've been on ESA for 2 years now and have no references, so am thinking to do some kind of voluntary work to get one. Although unfortuantely the interesting areas are also CRB governed so probably wouldn't be in a related area. I was also wondering about 'trial period' work placements, or if I could do work experience in a nursing/care home with the jobcentre's approval whilst retaining benefits (JSA by then presumably). Do you think I'd get a chance? To sort of erase any doubt raised by my record?

Any advice welcome...:)

dandelionclock30

I think your best bet would be to try Mind they help people who have mental health issue to get back into work so they would be able to advise you properly.
People do work in the care sector with criminal records and mental health issues but it will depend on the employing organization if they will have you. Even with upto date voluntary work a lot of employers will say no.
You say you have recent history of problems, do you really feel this is for you at the present time? I think it may be a good idea to leave it till after therapy as your not sorted yourself yet.There is nothing wrong with making enquiries now though.
Also self help groups may be a way forward for you as many of the facilitators have come through the group and then gone on to run it.
Best of Luck with this.

milliemonster

I think it's going to be difficult for you as criminal convictions are never 'spent' for 'care work' unfortunately. Especially as you have been sectioned in the past aswell. By the very nature of the work, you are often working with vulnerable people/clients and employers have to have complete trust and faith (well as much as they can anyway) in that their staff are fit for the job, in every sense, the public demands this.

Did you declare your previous record when you applied for nurse training? it seems odd that you were accepted and it got so far before being rejected due to CRB, if you didn't disclose this at the initial application stage this would ring alarm bells anyway as they expect complete transparency with applicants, they don't always reject applicants who have a criminal record, depends what it is and whether they have been upfront about it from the off.

I think your best bet is to speak to MIND, also perhaps look at other ways you can get involved, or even speak to potential employers before you even apply, get to know them, be fully open and honest about your past and how you have been since then and ask for advice from them directly on what you can do to 'prove yourself' so to speak.

good luck!

earthbound_misfit

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

You say you have recent history of problems, do you really feel this is for you at the present time? I think it may be a good idea to leave it till after therapy as your not sorted yourself yet.

I'm not quite sure if you mean getting a job, or doing care work specifically. I will have to get a job at some point, even though I'm on ESA right now, so am trying to find out what my options/goals are.
I seem to struggle with keeping a job the most, other things I can manage to some extent around my problems (because no-one cares if you are crying whilst doing your housework, and other things can be done as-and-when manageable). Not being able to hold down a job actually contributes to me feeling bad, cos I feel like I can't look after myself.
And care work is the one job I did for any length of time/got satisfaction in so it's far easier for me than other work (despite hard work and death it involves, am not afraid of these things!)
Therapy is likely to be many months (1-2 yrs) so can't really wait until it's over.
Am thinking of some kind of self-employment but will only have until Oct 2013 (Universal Credit introduction) to make it profitable! This would mean earning £90/week + tax credits to be on the same money as if I was on JSA/HB/CTB. Mind you that is a little bit terryifying/exciting in all the right ways so may be something satisfying I can put my mind/skills to! :j

earthbound_misfit

milliemonster wrote: »

By the very nature of the work, you are often working with vulnerable people/clients and employers have to have complete trust and faith (well as much as they can anyway) in that their staff are fit for the job, in every sense, the public demands this.

I know...
The awful thing is, if you met me/saw me caring for someone you'd be impressed (sorry to blow own trumpet lol). It's something that comes naturally to me, plus the organisational skills etc that go alongside it. I can be utterly on the ball, top-notch caring for people even when I am struggling personally... like it's the one area I can force myself to be professional in. People are always telling me I'd make a great nurse/counsellor/other careers I can probably never do now, and I have to explain and it breaks my heart.
And then you get these things in the news like the care home scandal, or hear of nurses being utterly neglectful! :mad: It makes me so mad that the CRB system is so crude that it let those abusers out there whilst preventing me from following my vocation!! Sorry for the rant, it's just appalling to me when nursing's been my thing since I used to bandage up my teddies as a child... and my record is due to incompetent, uncaring and abusive professionals who are in all likelihood still practising!

milliemonster wrote: »

Did you declare your previous record when you applied for nurse training? it seems odd that you were accepted and it got so far before being rejected due to CRB, if you didn't disclose this at the initial application stage this would ring alarm bells anyway as they expect complete transparency with applicants

They do the usual interviews etc first, to avoid discrimination/prejudice. Then offer a place conditional on clear CRB. I had actually contacted the uni about CRB checks before I even applied, but there was no obligation to do so. I had an additonal interview regarding my record, and staff stressed that I'd had a strong application/excellent references etc and they wanted me to do it... but later they decided that my employment prospects would be so grim it wasn't worth me doing it.

Thanks for the encouragement though

dandelionclock30

I meant care work specifically. You say that you have attended for mental health assessments with police within the last few months.
This indicates that you have recent history of problems and the majority of employers in this sector will not take the risk.
This isnt to say that you wont be able to have some job in the helping sector at some point.But I do honestly think your best route is through contacting Mind.They have an employment service and will be able to offer you proper support and advise.

colino

You've got to be realistic in your ambitions. I certainly wouldn't want someone with a criminal conviction anywhere near my nearest and dearest in a place that I was paying for them to be looked after.

marybelle01

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

And then you get these things in the news like the care home scandal, or hear of nurses being utterly neglectful! :mad: It makes me so mad that the CRB system is so crude that it let those abusers out there whilst preventing me from following my vocation!! Sorry for the rant, it's just appalling to me when nursing's been my thing since I used to bandage up my teddies as a child... and my record is due to incompetent, uncaring and abusive professionals who are in all likelihood still practising!

We are being just a little bit disingenuous here though aren't we? If people are suspected or convicted of abuse or neglect then their CRB's will show this fact and will prevent them from being employed in a position such as this again.

But do I not recall from your previous thread on exactly this same issue, that the reason you were refused treatment by health care professionals is because you were abusive and threatening towards them? And aren't some of the convictions relating to your conduct towards health care professionals? Now I think that all of us would agree that people in the caring professions need to be able to work in an environment that is free from abuse and threats. We may recognise that sometimes people with mental health problems cannot always prevent themselves from acting in inappropriate ways.

But isn't it a bit rich that you are complaining about being prevented from caring for others by a criminal record and/or police intelligence relating to your own abuse of people working in health care professions? When and if you are able to return to such work, will you be saying that it will be ok for your patients/clients to abuse or threaten you providing "it's not their fault" or "they can't be blamed for it"???

I don't see, as I said on your previous thread on this subject, any reason why, in time and with sufficient progress and an ability to recognise and take responsibility for your criminal record and the actions that led to it, you may not be able to use this to your advantage and obtain employment in the caring professions. Many people with "chequered pasts" do. But here we are, several months on from your last complaint about how you were being deprived of your true vocation by what you think are ridiculous rules, having clearly learned nothing from what has happened to you or anything that was said to you, except that nobody is being fair to you. If you persist in blaming everyone and everything else for your circumstances, your criminal record will never be set aside by any responsible employer, because you are still a loose cannon with a chip on thier shoulder.

earthbound_misfit

colino wrote: »

You've got to be realistic in your ambitions. I certainly wouldn't want someone with a criminal conviction anywhere near my nearest and dearest in a place that I was paying for them to be looked after.

What, even if it was irrelevent to the care?! I know they need to have checks in place/be cautious but it doesn't work the way it's supposed to. I actually had to report abuse (from 2 staff) in one place I worked AND THEY DIDN'T GET SACKED. Yet I'm banned for my record whereas service users/residents and their families liked me and knew I did a good job.
I'm terrified as this is the only job I've ever managed for longer than a couple of months, I don't seem to be good at anything else, I'm so scared of ending up homeless/destitute again, especially with the cuts to benefits and less choice over jobs. It's pushing me further into depression and I'm not seeing a way out.

Torry_Quine

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

What, even if it was irrelevent to the care?! I know they need to have checks in place/be cautious but it doesn't work the way it's supposed to. I actually had to report abuse (from 2 staff) in one place I worked AND THEY DIDN'T GET SACKED. Yet I'm banned for my record whereas service users/residents and their families liked me and knew I did a good job.
I'm terrified as this is the only job I've ever managed for longer than a couple of months, I don't seem to be good at anything else, I'm so scared of ending up homeless/destitute again, especially with the cuts to benefits and less choice over jobs. It's pushing me further into depression and I'm not seeing a way out.

I think that you sound a vey caring individual but can understand your concerns. It will be vey hard for you to get employment with you history but not impossible. Volunteering is a way forward but an enhanced check will be needed so I would sugest that honesty up-front is the best way. I don't agree that it should preclude you from ever working in this field and wish you every sucess.