Training Payback contract

lulaloo

Hi,

I'm looking for advice on a training payback matter.

I undertook a degree programme in Sept 2008 which my company told me there were to pay for. I sourced the course and pitched the idea to my employer, who agreed to pay for it with no terms in my contract regarding payback.

Since I undertook the degree course, the company I work for has been taken over by another company. The takeover was 2 years into my degree, Last week I got my degree result and after one of the new managers found out, 1 day later he sent a memo to the whole company saying that 'Any course fees that have been paid by the company must be paid in full by the employee should they leave within 24 months of the course end date'. I have to sign and return this contract clause within 7 days.

I spoke to ACAS on Friday who said that if I were to leave, I would be within my rights to contest this clause as technically, I could say that I would not have taken the course if I thought it was not paid for.

I am looking for advice on what I should do with the contract. Should I sign it and say 'I agree to this clause going forward, but not in retropect?'

I'm not looking for answers like 'You shouldn't have expected them to pay...you shouldn't get your degree for free...etc'

Hope someone can help

denla

Does this only include you choosing to leave within 24 months, or does it also include redundancy/dismissal? You don't want to sign something if it means the manager can sack you with some lame excuse just before the 24 months period expires.

lulaloo

It doesn't really say - this is the text of the added clause -

Should you choose to terminate your employment with XXXX within a
24 month period from the end date of any course / training you have undertaken which has been paid for by XXXX you will be responsible for reimbursing 100% of the total fee excluding VAT. This clause is at
the discretion of the HR Manager and/or Board of Directors.

mariefab

As long as there's a date on the contract clause (if not add one) I think that you can safely sign and return it. I'd keep a copy though to be on the safe side.
They can't backdate it's effect. See 15(3) & (4) below.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/15

Uncertain

For training costs to be reclaimed there must be a signed agreement in place BEFORE the course is undertaken. It cannot be retrospective. Although not relevant here, the firm cannot simply put a clause in an employee handbook or similar.

As far as I can see even if you signed the document it would not be enforceable in respect of a course taken before signing. Obviously it would be valid for any future courses.

A more difficult decision is whether to simply keep quiet and rely on this, should you leave within the time frame, or rock the boat.

denla

So is the OP going to refuse to sign it, informing employer it won't have legal binding effect anyway, or will OP sign it and keep quiet about the clause being useless? Lol. Personally I'd sign it and if I leave before 2 years I'd try to form decent relationship with work colleagues to get references (discreetly) from them instead of the line manager.

Uncertain

denla wrote: »

So is the OP going to refuse to sign it, informing employer it won't have legal binding effect anyway, or will OP sign it and keep quiet about the clause being useless? Lol. Personally I'd sign it and if I leave before 2 years I'd try to form decent relationship with work colleagues to get references (discreetly) from them instead of the line manager.

Very sadly I would have to say sign it and deal with any issues only if they arise. Making an issue of it now may cause problems and affect future references.

It may be that the firm realise this cannot be retrospective and are either trying it on or have simply worded the document badly.

Worst case should be having to make a tribunal claim for unlawful deduction. At least this would be after leaving and after any references have been issued.

What I would do is keep careful copies of all relevant documents safely at home just in case.

denla

Uncertain wrote: »

Very sadly I would have to say sign it and deal with any issues only if they arise. Making an issue of it now may cause problems and affect future references.

It may be that the firm realise this cannot be retrospective and are either trying it on or have simply worded the document badly.

Worst case should be having to make a tribunal claim for unlawful deduction. At least this would be after leaving and after any references have been issued.

What I would do is keep careful copies of all relevant documents safely at home just in case.

And if the employer insist repayment be made before any references can be given? It's easier to discreetly record the manager praising you during an appraisal/performance review, or getting character references from work colleagues.

Uncertain

denla wrote: »

And if the employer insist repayment be made before any references can be given?

Technically, as they would have no legal right to the money, that would be extortion! A serious criminal offence.

It's easier to discreetly record the manager praising you during an appraisal/performance review

Although not illegal to secretly record a conversation you are party to, I doubt a potential employer would be very impressed if they were presented with it in place of a reference.

lulaloo

thanks for all your help

denla

lulaloo wrote: »

thanks for all your help

Just to point out the employer can still force you to pay back should you leave before 24 months, if and only if when you 'pitched' the idea to the previous manager and gave him the impression you'll be staying for that duration or longer, and the manager agreed the company will fund your degree on that basis. Obviously the manager wouldn't agree they'd fund your degree unless the company receives something in return, and that something could be interpreted as increased performance for a period of time. A verbal agreement has legal binding effect. To sue you the company will need to contact the old manager and find out exactly what words were said during this pitch and what verbal agreement was made.