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Gross Misconduct dismissal
SLITHER99
Posts: 374 Forumite
Just to state, this isn't me, rather a close friend of mine.
My friend worked in IT Support for a major organisation (public) for approximately 11 years. Becoming fed-up that they weren't progressing him, about a year ago, he decided to pay for some trianing and certifications himself. This was apparently not totally well received by his higher ups. I understand this having worked there myself; the higher tier IT types and managers are very closed when it comes to the nicer projects, staff progression is very much not the plan. They like staff where they are, in their places.
Anyways, he's been cracking on with it, but also performing his duties just the same.
Aside from this, the general culture in IT was that end of life computers were generally sent to recycling. A company was paid to basically dispose of them. However, it was very much the culture that old hardware, provided it had been signed off by IT, it was up for grabs. Near all IT staff were furnished - as well as immediate families - with end of life machines. These were about 5 years old, not very valuable and, if anything saved the organization money through disposal costs. It was very much encouraged.
One day, my friend came across a laptop in the recycle cage. He checked and it had been marked as end of life and basically disposed of. So, realising all it needed was new RAM and a hard disk, he liberated it in the normal way everyone else liberates dead hardware.
After a while, someone saw him using the laptop whilst doing some work for his courses. It the end of his shift, not on company property (in the starbucks near the site) and reported him.
They've done him for gross misconduct and fraud and dismissed him after his month's consultation etc.
Now, I've no doubt that they've done him because they don't like that he's trying to better himself. IT really is that kind of culture, the 3rd liners and managers do not want 1st/2nd line employees threatening their positions, basically. And sure, there is the notion of "why would you want to work there, then". Which is true. But obviously, this means that he can't very well seek reference from an 11 year employment.
So, basically. Is there any grounds for appeal for unfair dismissal, given that this was the culture actively promoted by IT and, if so, any way around his now complete lack of reference?
I do kinda feel sorry for him; at the end of the day, even the IT managers and 3rd line types liberated end-of-life gear. Hell, even I did when I was there. It just so happened they fancied shot of him and used that very culture against him!
My friend worked in IT Support for a major organisation (public) for approximately 11 years. Becoming fed-up that they weren't progressing him, about a year ago, he decided to pay for some trianing and certifications himself. This was apparently not totally well received by his higher ups. I understand this having worked there myself; the higher tier IT types and managers are very closed when it comes to the nicer projects, staff progression is very much not the plan. They like staff where they are, in their places.
Anyways, he's been cracking on with it, but also performing his duties just the same.
Aside from this, the general culture in IT was that end of life computers were generally sent to recycling. A company was paid to basically dispose of them. However, it was very much the culture that old hardware, provided it had been signed off by IT, it was up for grabs. Near all IT staff were furnished - as well as immediate families - with end of life machines. These were about 5 years old, not very valuable and, if anything saved the organization money through disposal costs. It was very much encouraged.
One day, my friend came across a laptop in the recycle cage. He checked and it had been marked as end of life and basically disposed of. So, realising all it needed was new RAM and a hard disk, he liberated it in the normal way everyone else liberates dead hardware.
After a while, someone saw him using the laptop whilst doing some work for his courses. It the end of his shift, not on company property (in the starbucks near the site) and reported him.
They've done him for gross misconduct and fraud and dismissed him after his month's consultation etc.
Now, I've no doubt that they've done him because they don't like that he's trying to better himself. IT really is that kind of culture, the 3rd liners and managers do not want 1st/2nd line employees threatening their positions, basically. And sure, there is the notion of "why would you want to work there, then". Which is true. But obviously, this means that he can't very well seek reference from an 11 year employment.
So, basically. Is there any grounds for appeal for unfair dismissal, given that this was the culture actively promoted by IT and, if so, any way around his now complete lack of reference?
I do kinda feel sorry for him; at the end of the day, even the IT managers and 3rd line types liberated end-of-life gear. Hell, even I did when I was there. It just so happened they fancied shot of him and used that very culture against him!
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Comments
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The motivations are irrelevant, this comes down to a simple question - was he authorised to take the laptop, and were the others who took them authorised?0
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It was in the bin, it was marked as disposed by IT. It's a done deal.
If it's in the cage, it's open for liberation by anyone who walks by essentially. They pay the disposal company by weight so doing so lowers their bill!
But yes. If it's in the cage, pick it up. If it checks as disposed on the spreadsheet, feel free to take. So yes, he was authorised as long as it was on the spreadsheet.0 -
So, basically. Is there any grounds for appeal for unfair dismissal, given that this was the culture actively promoted by IT and, if so, any way around his now complete lack of reference?
The only way round the lack of reference is for one to form part of an agreed settlement after launching an employment tribunal claim.
Ironically even winning a claim would not get him a reference as a tribunal has no power to order one.
The fact that "everybody else did it" is not really relevant. A company is under no obligation to treat all misconduct in the same way. As long as it is not on the grounds of race, sex, religion etc they can discriminate in any way they please.
If he can construct any kind of case then there is a good chance of getting a reference as part or all of a settlement. This costs the firm nothing whereas fighting a claim, even if they ultimately win, costs time and money.
However, some firms do tend to fight claims almost regardless of cost so there is no guarantee.0 -
It was in the bin, it was marked as disposed by IT. It's a done deal.
If it's in the cage, it's open for liberation by anyone who walks by essentially. They pay the disposal company by weight so doing so lowers their bill!
But yes. If it's in the cage, pick it up. If it checks as disposed on the spreadsheet, feel free to take. So yes, he was authorised as long as it was on the spreadsheet.
Does he have evidence that this was actually allowed? The fact that most people did it and nobody bothered is not the same thing.0 -
Does he have evidence that this was actually allowed? The fact that most people did it and nobody bothered is not the same thing.
This is my concern also - I can't believe any official policy would allow for computers to be taken by staff, the data protection implications are too great.0 -
theft or fraud ? did he put it on the spreadsheet?
It would have be prudent to get any such authorisation in writing before leaving the premises with the kit.
The get him because he is doing a course idea sounds very odd.!!
> . !!!! ----> .0 -
It was in the bin, it was marked as disposed by IT. It's a done deal.
If it's in the cage, it's open for liberation by anyone who walks by essentially. They pay the disposal company by weight so doing so lowers their bill!
But yes. If it's in the cage, pick it up. If it checks as disposed on the spreadsheet, feel free to take. So yes, he was authorised as long as it was on the spreadsheet.
As others are saying, he needs to prove that this was an officially accepted procedure, not just that other people had done it and got away with it.
I'd be amazed if such procedure exists, purely and simply because saying to employees "anything that's in the bin can be taken home" encourages people to put things in the bin before they really need to be there.
It's why many shops/restaurants etc throw away food at the end of its shelf life rather than give it to employees. If the person ordering the food knows they get to keep it if it doesn't get used, there's no incentive to order the correct amount and minimise wastage.0 -
This is my concern also - I can't believe any official policy would allow for computers to be taken by staff, the data protection implications are too great.
Just to answer this, all hard disks are removed from PCs at their point of disposal/end of life and destroyed seperately. When I worked there a long time ago, part of my job was drill-press holes into hard disks. This is the point of information store, this was the part that needed destruction. The rest of the hardware holds no information and goes to recycle.
This is why the laptop that was liberated needed a new hard disk.0 -
theft or fraud ? did he put it on the spreadsheet?
It would have be prudent to get any such authorisation in writing before leaving the premises with the kit.
This, I don't know. However it very much was the culture to remove kit that was end of life. I don't think he was of a proper position to even have access to the disposal spreadsheet.
End of life/disposal meant any kit that was either out of warranty period and couldn't be RMAd, or kit that was ancient. well out of warranty and been replaced. The laptop concerned was about six years old when he got it and full of scuffs. But yes, all IT staff frequenly took kit for home use.0 -
All the Government Departments I've had dealings with in Whitehall have a very strict policy on items being thrown out or sent to recycling. Under no circumstances can an employee or contractor take anything irrespective of how low or high value it is.
This is to avoid any disputes over whether anyone is allowed to take anything home. It avoids disputes such as the OPs friend is having.
They especially did not like the recycling to be messed around with as one of their big things at the moment is recycling so the more (Weight) they recycle the happier the senior staff are.0
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