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Train full - free upgrades to 1st class

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  • Seakay
    Seakay Posts: 4,269 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I used to work for National Rail Enquiries and Ts and Cs do not guarantee you a seat unless you have an advance purchase ticket - it's one of the things that we used to get a lot of complaints about! If the train is completely full including standing room then the train staff MIGHT allow you into first class for safety reasons but there is no right to be there if you have a standard class ticket.
  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 7 November 2012 at 3:44PM
    Seakay wrote: »
    ...Ts and Cs do not guarantee you a seat unless you have an advance purchase ticket...
    Seakay, did you mean to say...
    "Ts and Cs do not guarantee you a seat unless you have a seat reservation"?
    Seat reservations are available with tickets other than Advance tickets.

    Seakay wrote: »
    I used to work for National Rail Enquiries...
    Why did you leave?
  • dad62 wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know exactly what the law is with regards to overcrowding of carriages and health and safety. I have been on trains where a 12 carriage train has been reduced to 4 carriages and the guards have allowed the carriages to be filled to what would appear to be a very dangerous amount of passengers. Is there a maximum number of passengers allowed in each carriage? If I were to photographically record evidence of a carriage being allowed to be filled to a dangerous level and submitted it to British Transport Police would they be required to take action?

    I personally think it is wrong of train companies who are granted an effective monopoly to take people's money and give them no choice but to stand despite their poor safety record.

    For this reason I think it is perfectly reasonable to sit in first class if the only other option is to stand.

    AFAIK there is no required maximum number of passenger to be carried on any given train, unlike buses. Though I do know there was a properly done study that showed that a crammed commuter train with people standing cheek to jowl would result in fewer injuries/deaths in a crash then one that was half empty - due to people acting as a cushion and stopping others from getting flung about the carriage.


    And you are only purchasing a ticket to convey you from A-B - unless you have a reservation, then your ticket does NOT guarantee you a seat.
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • Wail
    Wail Posts: 265 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    LONG STORY CUT

    I asked if he could help and he refused.

    Lets just say my reply was not polite.

    Raise a complaint with the operator. Although do be careful, I have heard of verbal assault being taken forwards because the passenger has complained and provided all of their details.
    dad62 wrote: »
    Sadly the negligence of the rail companies has resulted in several rail disasters in recent decades.
    It certainly has resulted in a small number of disasters and they have been thoroughly investigated and lessons learned. But note that this is only several accidents and the negligence has been down to the infrastructure and safety systems, and not the train capacity.
    dad62 wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know exactly what the law is with regards to overcrowding of carriages and health and safety. I have been on trains where a 12 carriage train has been reduced to 4 carriages and the guards have allowed the carriages to be filled to what would appear to be a very dangerous amount of passengers. Is there a maximum number of passengers allowed in each carriage? If I were to photographically record evidence of a carriage being allowed to be filled to a dangerous level and submitted it to British Transport Police would they be required to take action?

    I personally think it is wrong of train companies who are granted an effective monopoly to take people's money and give them no choice but to stand despite their poor safety record.

    For this reason I think it is perfectly reasonable to sit in first class if the only other option is to stand.

    There is no legal limit for train capacity.

    There are limits for weight that are published on the side of the trains.

    The limit is defined usually by safe operation of train (eg all staff required can get on board, the doors can close and the brakes can be released).

    A reservation does not guarantee you a seat.
  • Wail wrote: »
    Raise a complaint with the operator. Although do be careful, I have heard of verbal assault being taken forwards because the passenger has complained and provided all of their details.

    Normally, I'm one to defend on-train staff, but customer services is a major part of the job and unfortunately like most jobs out there, there's the odd bad apple. Any complaint will be taken seriously by the Train Company and any staff found to be at fault will receive correctional training.
    Wail wrote: »
    the negligence has been down to the infrastructure and safety systems, and not the train capacity.

    Or an individual Train Company.
    Wail wrote: »
    the doors can close and the brakes can be released).

    Don't worry about that, one can raise the T.I.S up front if you can't get the door shut ;)
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  • Wail
    Wail Posts: 265 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Don't worry about that, one can raise the T.I.S up front if you can't get the door shut ;)

    And the RAIB have been very disappointed when they have caught "trains" doing that :p

    Ladbroke Grove and Southall both had contributory factors from the Train Operators at the time (although infrastructure did not help).
  • Tiddlywinks
    Tiddlywinks Posts: 5,777 Forumite
    I've been Money Tipped!
    I travelled on an overcrowded 2 hour train journey with my toddler and baby the other month.

    We jumped on and put the buggy in the disabled space in first class (as it was the only space i could see - all lugage racks etc were full or I would have folded it). There were around 3 people in the first class carriage.

    The conductor came and I explained the problem and was told I could leave the buggy there but me and the kids would have to move. We therefore stepped in the other side of the door and sat down (took buggy with us as it had personal belongings on (this was apparently completly acceptable). despite being a nuscience to other travellers as I had to move it every time the train stopped at a station.

    ........... At one point he came back and told me there were seats 2 carrages down and when I asked how I was to get to them was informed I should fold the buggy carry that + my cases etc and baby + hold my toddlers hand.

    I asked if he could help and he refused.

    Lets just say my reply was not polite.

    Why choose to travel with a baby, a toddler, a buggy and luggage at peak time?

    Why should the guard have to help you lug all of your stuff around the train? You're able bodied, you chose to bring all of the stuff and chose that mode of transport and that time of travel... sorry, but I think with more planning you could have had a much more pleasant experience.
    :hello:
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