Training & Contracts

Littlespot

Hello everyone,

I am a Veterinary Nurse (Unqualified) and have been working for my employer for nearly 3 years. Last spring, my boss offered to send me to college, to study for my qualification. This is currently a 3 year course, and my employer sends me once weekly to the local agricultural college. I am paid for the hours I am there. At the time, there was never any mention of repayments relating to my training fees in my normal employment contract. My employer never stipulated that he would require anything else from me except that he obviously expected me to work hard and do well at college. I started the course on the verbal agreement that he was paying for my course in full. Further terms and conditions were never mentioned.

One year into my course, and my employer has given me a contract that he expects me to sign, stating that if I leave his practice at any point during my training, I must pay back 100% of the course fees. If i leave his practice within 1 year of qualifying, I must pay back 100% also. If I leave within 2 years of qualifying, I must pay back two thirds, and within 3 years, one third. After that, I am free to leave with no financial tie.

My fees will total £3500 once I've completed the course.

I have refused to sign it on the basis that I was never told that my training could potentially cost me money (my salary is approaching 12 grand a year at present- as a result I don't have much spare cash!) if I chose to leave the company. My boss isn't happy and is still pushing me to sign it, as he says he has to protect his 'investment' as he puts it.

Before me, he put one other nurse through training (she is now qualified) and she was never tied into any contract. She was free to leave at any point during and after her course with no financial tie.

Now, I understand that I have cost him money in training me to a qualified level, and I appreciate that I will always have this qualification to my name once I have passed, so in that way he is doing me a huge favour.

He was hinting in our discussion today that I am all about the Take, Take, Take, but the way I see it, I am bettering myself (studying in my own time, stressing about exams, driving further for college than I would have to otherwise on a normal working day) so that he has a more experienced, knowledgeable member of staff.

As for his 'financial investment'... Well, I've been paid pitifully poor wages for the past 3 years, and will do for the next 2 years until I am qualified. Had he employed a qualified nurse from the start he would now be out of pocket from paying a higher wage (the average in my part of the country for a qualified nurse is about £18000). So, I have, in a sense, saved him money...

Can he do this? I am trying to get as much advice as possible as I have to face him again and work out what we are going to do next week.

Many thanks

Buellguy

Don't know about the legality side of it BUT:

a/ Do you intend to stay - in which case take the training, don't forget HE is putting you through training, you will come out with a qualification, that, in 3 years, you won't have paid a penny for and can go elsewhere. Can YOU afford to put yourself through the training??

b/ Think of it from his point of view, he pays to put you through training, you then leave. He then has to go and find someone else and is out of pocket for the training

As for the 'other nurse' he probably did this when times might not have been so hard financially wise??

MoneySavingUser

In a lot of sectors such 'clawback' contracts are common i.e. people training to be lawyers/accountants etc.

One of the main accounting bodies once had a notice saying such contract may breach EU freedom of movement laws (as they limit your opportunities to change jobs) but they have removed it now and all the firms still have this clause

I'm afraid there probably isn't much that you can do about it

Littlespot

Thanks for your reply.

To answer your questions:

A. Yes, I fully intend to stay. My issue is that things change - I don't want to find that at some point within my contract window, I become really unhappy in my workplace, for whatever reason. Let's say a new member of staff arrives and I don't get on with them. I don't want to feel trapped in a place I hate (I've been very unhappy there in the past). Or, let's say, I get pregnant - These things happen. What then? I don't want my husband and I to have to worry about finding the money if I decide I don't want to return to work. All hypothetical, of course, but something to consider from my point of view.

B. Yes, I can see his side of things too relating to cost- however, if this was of major concern to him, he should have laid out a contract from the start, and allowed me to decide if I agreed to his terms and conditions before investing my own time and emotion into my course - not impose them on me, once I had already started the course and passed my first year.

As I said, by hiring an unqualified person to essentially do the job of a qualified person (with the exception of a few procedures I am not legally entitled to perform, I do everything my qualified collegues do on a day-to-day basis), he has saved himself upwards of £6000 a year. His pocket isn't really taking a hit, as I see it.

becky4131

I am a qualified vet nurse and i signed a contract to say i would stay 2 years post qualification or pay back training fees. I have just left my practice just before the 2 years and they are now wanting me to pay back fees. It is up to you if you want to sign it...i did as never thought i would leave but things got so bad i had to get out of the place.
Luckily my contract doesn't stand up in court as there is no company name or address on it, it isn't even on headed paper! I will therefore not paying back the fees (the amount they are wanting is much more than it actually cost and i only left 2 weeks before end of 2 years).

I guess the question is what happens if you don't sign it?

MissSarah1972

becky4131 wrote: »

I am a qualified vet nurse and i signed a contract to say i would stay 2 years post qualification or pay back training fees. I have just left my practice just before the 2 years and they are now wanting me to pay back fees. It is up to you if you want to sign it...i did as never thought i would leave but things got so bad i had to get out of the place.
Luckily my contract doesn't stand up in court as there is no company name or address on it, it isn't even on headed paper! I will therefore not paying back the fees (the amount they are wanting is much more than it actually cost and i only left 2 weeks before end of 2 years).

I guess the question is what happens if you don't sign it?

Maybe they will replace the OP?

Why not say to the boss/vet you will sign but on one condition, that when you pass you want a £6k pay increase!

dizzyrascal

Is it still the case that you must be employed by a vet to be allowed on the course? If so then you do need to think about this as an opportunity. Once you have qualified and got more experience you can command a good salary and be flexible about where you work.
To be honest I think the fees you might have to pay are pretty low compared to many training costs and you get a very valuable and useful qualification out of it.

Buellguy

MissSarah1972 wrote: »

Maybe they will replace the OP?

Why not say to the boss/vet you will sign but on one condition, that when you pass you want a £6k pay increase!

Just get him to add that you will be on the equivalent pay for a qualified nurse when you pass and go for it

becky4131

Im sure you are aware how hard it is to get a training practice so if there is a chance he will replace you i would sign it. You can always leave like i did if you get very unhappy, no one can take the qualification away from you and you will have oppurtunities to earn more money (im currently locuming and earning around £20,000 year). Ask for a breakdown of costs if you want to know what he is asking you to repay and if seems legit then id say fair enough.

paddedjohn

OP, at the end of the day you are an unqualified vetinary nurse so its pointless quotind their £18k wage and whilst £3.5k may not be a lot of cash to put you on this training course your boss is also paying your salary while you are there so his total outlay shoots up to about £8.5k when that is taken into consideration. Why should he train you up so that you can then go elswhere or leave to start a family? He is showing his commitment to you by paying for your qualifications so the least you can do is sign the contract and get a promise of a rise when qualified.

Savvy_Sue

The only thing I can suggest is that you negotiate the repayment schedule / fees, eg suggest you pay 100% back if you leave within 6 months of successful completion, and then on a reducing sliding scale.

If you got pregnant, you wouldn't be counted as leaving while you were on m/l, AFAIK.