National incomes down 13% in 4 years.

ukcarper

wotsthat wrote: »

The ONS release is here. I've only skimmed through it but there's some interesting stuff in it and it's definitely not all doom and gloom...

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171766_284260.pdf

- average income per head in the UK is only bettered by three other EU members

- household savings rates are dramatically higher than 2008

- household net wealth is at record levels

Fairly obviously the reduction in income is almost entirely down to inflation and the higher reliance on part time work.

For the bearish there's a lot of focus mapping this recession against previous recessions showing how much more prolonged this one is.

As for Brendan Barber I honestly don't believe he'd read the report at the time he made his quote.

Is the national net income per head the same as the income of an individual I'm not sure it is.

Conrad

Pre 2008 income was a temporary fantom, let it go.

We were loosing out to places like China, and we filled this void with debt, it was all a temporary illusion.

Get over it.

Now it's about rebalancing the economy, and exporting to the world. In this manner we are now entering a new prosperity era.

The biggest drag now is overly tight retail mortgage regulation which causes many folk to have to rent - this is the biggest unknow right now, and just like society didn't want to hear about Saville it now doesn't realise how bad FSA regulation is for millions of would be borrowers.

wotsthat

ukcarper wrote: »

Is the national net income per head the same as the income of an individual I'm not sure it is.

I think you're right.

National net income per head includes the output of industry etc. Household income per head relates to the actual income of an individual.

In the second quarter of 2012, real household actual income per head was 2.9 per cent below its peak in quarter three 2009

Clearly, national incomes down 13% in 4 years makes a better headline than household income down 2.9% in 3 years.

The ONS are trying to measure national well-being and asserting that measuring national income per head is better than measuring GDO per head. Using this measure we should feel worse off than the reductions in GDP would indicate.

Intoodeep

worried_jim wrote: »

I earn 20% more than in 2008 when I was paying 6.9% on my mortgage, I now pay 4.2%. I love the recession!

It's not all doom and gloom.

Likewise
Earning 15% more than in 2008, was paying 5.75% on my mortgage, now paying 1.9%('ish off the top of my head)
:beer::j:beer::j

GeorgeHowell

Barber is right, it was all done on national and personal debt. If you borrow, then eventually it has to be paid back. So nobody should be surprised. But the large swathes of the UK population that are too economically illiterate, blinkered, unrealistic, and short-termist in their thinking to grasp that fundamental reality are apparently surprised. I'm not surprised that they are surprised.

Graham_Devon

Intoodeep wrote: »

Likewise
Earning 15% more than in 2008, was paying 5.75% on my mortgage, now paying 1.9%('ish off the top of my head)
:beer::j:beer::j

Back to this username now!?

Or did you forget how to spell your last one?

shortchanged_2

Conrad wrote: »

Pre 2008 income was a temporary fantom, let it go.

We were loosing out to places like China, and we filled this void with debt, it was all a temporary illusion.

Get over it.

Now it's about rebalancing the economy, and exporting to the world. In this manner we are now entering a new prosperity era.

The biggest drag now is overly tight retail mortgage regulation which causes many folk to have to rent - this is the biggest unknow right now, and just like society didn't want to hear about Saville it now doesn't realise how bad FSA regulation is for millions of would be borrowers.

Hang on a minute Conrad. What do you think is one of the main causes of this 'phantom' wealth over the previous decade?

I have a feeling house prices have a lot to answer for. Mewing was rife and certainly HPI has caused more problems than it solved and now you want that to see house prices rising again.

House prices should never be the driver of an economy but a side effect of healthy economy as long as rises are sensible.

IveSeenTheLight

dryhat wrote: »

People on average income used to be able to buy houses on a single income and still provide for a family.
Now it takes two incomes to buy the same (or equivalent) houses and many couples are struggling.

Higher house prices have generally made people poorer not richer.

Ok, your comparing household income to house prices.

The fact is that whilst historically traditionally there was one income in the household, the fact is that the demographic has changed and that home owners now have two incomes.

This is only one reason which pushed house prices higher each year and explains why two income households were able to save and afford better properties.

Gracchus_Babeuf

shortchanged wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20048421

Well there's your reason for recession that so many people seemed to ignore or overlook.

It honestly beggars belief that so many people felt the UK could continue to grow with the facts that were right before their eyes.

Much of this is probably due to more part-time work and lack of overtime. But it shows that we are a long way from being out of the woods.

Thrugelmir

Conrad wrote: »

We were loosing out to places like China, and we filled this void with debt, it was all a temporary illusion.

Why was the West loosing out to China?

Because people had money to burn on disposable objects that weren't a necessity.

Now we're turning full cycle.