should cyclists be treated as road-users, or pedestrians?

skivenov

Man_Overboard wrote: »

In the opening shots of the youtube video, almost exactly half of the wide-angled mirror was filled with an image of the truck's passenger door

If the mirror had been pushed out and down a bit, the cyclists would have been clearly visible.

The mirror isn't perfectly aligned to the camera (might be to the driver), but either way, every vehicle has blind spots. If you're in a car, you can and must check them by looking out the window, but no one does everytime without fail, and I bet some people haven't done since they passed their test. Yeah, they're in the wrong, doesn't stop it hurting when they run you over though.

Goods vehicles are another story and the blind spots on them, even with auxillary mirrors perfectly set up can be massive. I've got 5 mirrors and a back window on my transit, it's still got blind spots both sides you can fit a bike in. It's not just big commercials either. You can sit in the wrong place next to a Berlingo or an Astravan in a 7.5 tonne truck and be invisible to the driver (I know because I've been on both sides of that one :eek:).

Man_Overboard_2

skivenov wrote: »

If you're in a car, you can and must check by looking out the window, but no one does everytime without fail

There is no excuse for failing to be aware of a more vulnerable road user than yourself. Even if you have managed to create a few blindspots for yourself, you should be able to anticipate the annoying tendency of pedestrians and cyclists to hide themselves in those very blindspots.

The_ICT_Engineer

Cycle's are legally defined as vehicles of the highway, And have been since 1888.

mikey72

Man_Overboard wrote: »

There is no excuse for failing to be aware of a more vulnerable road user than yourself. Even if you have managed to create a few blindspots for yourself, you should be able to anticipate the annoying tendency of pedestrians and cyclists to hide themselves in those very blindspots.

It's not an excuse.
Just a fact.
If it was a truck in my blind spot, I couldn't see it, so vulnerability won't aftect that
Just the truck will care less.

skivenov

Man_Overboard wrote: »

There is no excuse for failing to be aware of a more vulnerable road user than yourself.

There's a fair few to be honest, stupidty, ignorance and being a crap driver probably feature highly in the list. They're not good excuses and there's no doubt the people who they apply to are in the wrong and shouldn't be on the roads, but it's not a great consolation when you get hit by one (been there done that).

So you've got to look out for number one out there. The main question I keep asking myself when I'm on the pushbike (bet you didn't think I pedal!) or the scooter is "Has that driver seen me?", it's part of defensive riding.

Man_Overboard wrote: »

Even if you have managed to create a few blindspots for yourself, you should be able to anticipate the annoying tendency of pedestrians and cyclists to hide themselves in those very blindspots.

Yes, you're right (I didn't create them, it came with them, so I just deal with them).

Assuming I'm perfect (I'm good, but I'm not perfect) If you sit in a van/truck with me when I'm stopped at a red light, you'll see my eyes going in circles (nearside mirrors, traffic light, centre mirror where fitted, front, offside mirror/s, centre, front, centre mirror where fitted, traffic light, nearside mirrors). What's the main thing I'm looking for? Someone going into a blindspot.

But - I'm off that left mirror for 5 seconds easily for every second I'm on it. Someone could get into it. Is it too much to ask of them to anticipate they might be putting themselves where I can't see them.

Man_Overboard_2

skivenov wrote: »

There's a fair few to be honest, stupidty, ignorance and being a crap driver probably feature highly in the list. They're not good excuses and there's no doubt the people who they apply to are in the wrong and shouldn't be on the roads, but it's not a great consolation when you get hit by one (been there done that).

So you've got to look out for number one out there. The main question I keep asking myself when I'm on the pushbike (bet you didn't think I pedal!) or the scooter is "Has that driver seen me?", it's part of defensive riding.



Yes, you're right (I didn't create them, it came with them, so I just deal with them).

Assuming I'm perfect (I'm good, but I'm not perfect) If you sit in a van/truck with me when I'm stopped at a red light, you'll see my eyes going in circles (nearside mirrors, traffic light, centre mirror where fitted, front, offside mirror/s, centre, front, centre mirror where fitted, traffic light, nearside mirrors). What's the main thing I'm looking for? Someone going into a blindspot.

But - I'm off that left mirror for 5 seconds easily for every second I'm on it. Someone could get into it. Is it too much to ask of them to anticipate they might be putting themselves where I can't see them.

I wish your views were included in 'The Driving Test'

Most of the population manages to get a licence for life after less than an hour's drive during which they were lucky enough to meet no serious challenges

skivenov

So do I! Worst bit is, that test could well be the best drive they do for the rest of their life. When in fact the DSA test is the minimum standard for driving on te road. So you've just got to up your game, because they're not going to up theirs.

Screw em all, they can have as many crashes as they want so long as I'm not involved in any way.

Look out for number one and drive/ride/pedal defensively. Aim to see everything. Assume everyone who's anywhere near the road is about to do the stupidest thing imaginable, plan how you can avoid that effecting you, and what you're going to do when it happens.

Read the highway code, and when you've finished that, read Roadcraft. Get extra training, do your advanced, and then you'll think you've seen all and done it all and some wally will still manage to suprise you! Or you'll do what I did last year, take your eye off the game for half a minute and not see the car going in the back of you at a roundabout.

snowleopard61

I don't drive at all, and my transport on a day to day basis is about 95% walking, the rest public transport. I'd love to cycle but feel it is extremely unsafe to do so on the road, even for competent cyclists.

I would like to see cyclists allowed to use pavements - with exceptions in areas of heavy pedestrian traffic such as shopping centres or busy city centres - but with the proviso that in the event of a collision between a cyclist and a pedestrian, the cyclist takes total responsibility in law. I think it is safer for pedestrians to share the pavement with cyclists than for cyclists to share the road with other vehicles. However the onus must be on the cyclist to negotiate safely around pedestrians, and the penalties for not doing so should be stringent.

Enterprise_1701C

I cycle and I do not drive.

I always make the assumption that drivers cannot see me, mainlly because of the amount of times I have had to stop in a hurry when I am on the main road on a T junction. Once I even broke my brake cable and managed to stop about 2 inches from a car that pulled out without looking. I have also had numerous cars open doors on my, including police cars.

I wear a helmet, use lights and wear a high vis jacket.

I use roads when I can, but I am at times forced to use a pavements to avoid causing an obstruction, I move slower than cars so when both lanes are in heavy use I get out of the way. The pavements I use are well out of town centres and are not heavily used.

One frustrating thing I find is when roadworks are being undertaken and they cone off the road they do not leave enough room for cars and bikes (one local to me that has been going since March had the cones about a foot over the middle line, even though it appears that it could easily be that far over the other side, hence making room for bikes)!

snowleopard61

Never depend on anyone else.

Unfortunately this is unworkable. Drivers, cyclists and pedestrians are all at the mercy of each other. To take an extreme example, if a driver were to take it into his/her head to drive a car at me (a pedestrian) on purpose, which has actually happened recently in Cardiff, I wouldn't stand a chance. If a driver were to have a heart attack or first epileptic fit at the wheel, anyone in the vicinity, whether on road or pavement, could be a goner. And this is even apart from everyday human error. We can only be vigilant and sensible ourselves, and hope for the best.