Declared not parent - no monies returned, the fight continues...

kari150

Hi all,

I'm new to this so thought I'd give it a bash and see if anyone out there would be able to comment/assist/advise/help myself and my partner with the following please?

[FONT=&quot]In brief: trust me this is as brief as can be!
[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]He has obtained a Declaration of Non Parentage through the UK Courts as the PWC did not comply to the request of a DNA test (putting her in contempt of court) - after having been given a '3 strike and out' rule by the judge in a protracted case spanning aprox 1 year, at his expense.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Advised in at least 2 recorded calls (they advised all calls are recorded prior to question posed) with the CSA that a Declaration of Non Parentage holds the same bearing as a negative DNA test result and should/will be dealt with as such.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Case has been pushed from pillar to post to 'assess' how much money should be returned - my partner argues ALL monies should be returned as he has been declared by law as NOT the parent.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Payments made since first contact with CSA, at which time (documented by partner and sent to CSA as they claim not to be able to find any) parentage was officially disputed, amount to approximately £9,000 + - this includes both arrears and maintenance.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]CSA advised not all monies will be refunded,case was being scrutinised to advise as to why.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Advice sought through local MP Claire Perry - who said she would contact CSA and intervene to conclude refund in full [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Next CSA contact made to partner advised after having looked into case in detail that they feel NO monies should be refundable and he now OWES them approximately £300 to bring the case to a close.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Myself and my partner feel this is ludicrous and dare we use the word, fraud! Especially since the CSA have to be one of the few companies/agencies allowed to construct business without ANY published policies with regards to refunds etc - thus giving them almost carte blanche.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]I wonder if you would be so kind as to perhaps advise or pass comment on the above as we are almost quite literally at the ends of our tether, having put our own lives on hold while this whole fiasco continues?[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]We are currently in the process of writing to Iain Duncan Smith as clearly the local MP seems to be out of her depth or happily fobbing us off.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]I look forward in anticipation to your reply, and thank you for your time.[/FONT]

Valli

Presumably the monies you are claiming have already been paid to the mother of this child.

Why not pursue her for them?

Don't hold your breath though.

Seriously I would suggest you get specialist legal advice on this one.

Is it the case that your partner disputed that he was the father from the outset? Personally I would be tempted to bring a joint claim against the PWC and the CSA for refund of all monies paid thus far, plus interest.

PS Please use larger fonts;)

kari150

[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Hi all,

I'm new to this so thought I'd give it a bash and see if anyone out there would be able to comment/assist/advise/help myself and my partner with the following please?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In brief: trust me this is as brief as can be!
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]He has obtained a Declaration of Non Parentage through the UK Courts as the PWC did not comply to the request of a DNA test (putting her in contempt of court) - after having been given a '3 strike and out' rule by the judge in a protracted case spanning aprox 1 year, at his expense.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Advised in at least 2 recorded calls (they advised all calls are recorded prior to question posed) with the CSA that a Declaration of Non Parentage holds the same bearing as a negative DNA test result and should/will be dealt with as such.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Case has been pushed from pillar to post to 'assess' how much money should be returned - my partner argues ALL monies should be returned as he has been declared by law as NOT the parent.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Payments made since first contact with CSA, at which time (documented by partner and sent to CSA as they claim not to be able to find any) parentage was officially disputed, amount to approximately £9,000 + - this includes both arrears and maintenance.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]CSA advised not all monies will be refunded,case was being scrutinised to advise as to why.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Advice sought through local MP Claire Perry - who said she would contact CSA and intervene to conclude refund in full [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Next CSA contact made to partner advised after having looked into case in detail that they feel NO monies should be refundable and he now OWES them approximately £300 to bring the case to a close.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Myself and my partner feel this is ludicrous and dare we use the word, fraud! Especially since the CSA have to be one of the few companies/agencies allowed to construct business without ANY published policies with regards to refunds etc - thus giving them almost carte blanche.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]



[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I wonder if you would be so kind as to perhaps advise or pass comment on the above as we are almost quite literally at the ends of our tether, having put our own lives on hold while this whole fiasco continues?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]



[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We are currently in the process of writing to Iain Duncan Smith as clearly the local MP seems to be out of her depth or happily fobbing us off.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]



[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I look forward in anticipation to your reply, and thank you for your time.[/FONT]


I'm not sure if it's my computer so have re-posted to see if that's any better - like I said new and the reason for posting in first place is to seek guidance from anyone who may have experienced the same/similar. Thanks for reply.

kevin137

It is a very very strange case that is for sure...! And i don't think you will find a similar anywhere.

However, there are certain rules that the CSA must abide by when making a case against a NRP or alleged NRP.

The 1st is that an offer of DNA testing is to be given, so you have the opportunity to dispute. This i assume you did, and i hope you did in writing, if you have a copy of the letter good...!

This is the page but cannot be found....

https://www.gov.uk/arranging-child-maintenance-through-child-support-agency/disagreements-about-parentage

I believe it says tat you may be asked to still pay and that if it be proved you are not the NRP then any money paid would be returned.

That being the case, i would not even entertain using the CSA appeal process as by notifying them of the order by the court, the case is effectively closed, and as such will be a nightmare to get anyone to talk about...!!!

Personally, i would just go the other way.

It is a simple process of recovery of the money, use the courts, easy to do, easy to prove money was taken and easy to prove the argument. In effect getting an order against them will be a walk in the park, and if you have the paperwork in chronological order all dated and copied they will struggle to argue that the money is not owed.

The + side to this, is if you write to the CSA giving them 14 days to return the money in FULL and outline exact amounts as you would for the court, and notify that a failure to respond will result in legal action, send recorded delivery and just forget, then when you do not receive a reply, you can file in the court immediately as you will of given them time to make the repayment.

Your claim, it should include all money owed, all money spent, on legal action, all money spent on stationary postage phone calls etc etc etc. Plus it should included interest on the full amount at base rate + 3% from the date the 14 days expire. You amy also want to include "time" spent on working on the case at your hourly rate for the equivalent you would get should you be at work, i would consider this a reasonable cost to yourself and should be included.

I would not entertain speaking to them in any other way expect by letter now, recorded delivery.

Good luck and hope it gets resolved very quickly....

kevin137

Ok, so i found the new page and they have become very very vague....

https://www.gov.uk/arranging-child-maintenance-child-support-agency/disagreements-about-parentage

If the named person proves they’re not the parent

If this happens the CSA may:

refund any payments made after the date they first denied they were the parent
refund the cost of any DNA tests arranged through the CSA
The CSA may also ask the other parent to pay back any child maintenance.

Refunds depend on the circumstances of each case.


However, don't be put off by this, they will have to argue with a court who may well take offence that it is even being questioned since the PWC clearly was non compliant with the original case. And simply state that the money should never been collected in the 1st place as it would be a stupid person that would continue to collect on a PWC who refused DNA testing... Making it a walk in the park.

As a side note, it may be worth listing the PWC as a co-respondent as the actual recipient of the money, but not in the paperwork, as you have no way of actually knowing who the money was paid to, you have had no choice but to involve the PWC and if it is agreed, it would be between them to argue who actually repays the money but it was taken on her behalf by the CSA which is why it is listed this way...

kari150

Hi Kevin, Yes he disputed there and then the contact was made - not to say that they didn't start taking money of course as they have the power to assume - 'Guilty until proven innocent' with them, as I'm sure you know. He has paid for court fees but not the DNA test as there was not a sample reciprocated - it never took place. At no point in ANY of their documented rules/policies/procedures do they state what will happen in the event of a D of Non P is awarded - no the wording if I recall from the hundreds of times read is 'each case will be dealt with on an individual basis' IE we can do what we like and you can't argue.....

I very much appreciate your reply and will show my partner and discuss. I have never come across such a corrupt agency who continue to have carte blanche to make people's lives a living misery!

kevin137

That is a very BIG understatement, they get it so wrong so often, if it was anything other than a government agency it would of been shut down for negligence years ago...

I took the CSA to court, and got an injunction against them, although i didn't recover any money, as i was assessed to pay still while i had the injunction it did wipe out the arrears i was owed, and i was leaving the country after anyway, so it served it's purpose for me. There are other cases of CCJ's issued against the CSA that is for sure, so don't give up hope, it is possible to get a judgement against them, and you sound like you are not going to let them get away with it, and this is probably the best way to deal with it, as it takes the decision out of there hands.

They will be ordered to repay (or not) as the case may be and they will have to live with it, if you get stuck in there appeal process then ICE etc, you will wait for years, and then they will not follow what has been instructed of them and it will start all over again, all the time the value of your money reduces and you end up with nothing anyway...!

If you ahve any questions just ask...

shegirl

Wow,I thought they didn't make an assessment/take payment if parentage is in dispute and waited until it had been decided!They certainly do at times (did when ex tried that one when out son was born as didn't want his mum to know,they wouldn't assess until after the test.Should've known then to never take the coward back:mad:)

kari150

Sadly not the case for us as he was told that if he didn't pay they would apply a Detachment of Earnings anyway so he did as was told and paid on time every month by card - they even rang him 1 Sunday to say this was not their preferred method of payment and would he consider a DD he said point blank NO as you can change the amount taken yourselves! He said he would set up a Standing Order but they said they didn't accept them!!!
They make up the rules as they go along and all the while the money sits in a big pot earning the fat cats of the government interest! Wouldn't surprise me if its their holiday fund!!

jarhead66

A very intresting thread,, the CSA should refund all the money. As we all know the CSA are always banging on about supporting your child!!
A mate of mine has been paying maintenance for the last 5 yrs for his child, under CSA1. He has just found out that the child may not be his!! So is thinking of going for a D.N.A. test, He seams to think that his ex might not agree to a D.N.A. test, so will he get all the money back which amounts up to about £20,000 over the last 5 years, ( he stooped paying for his daughter 5 yrs ago!) The CSA took his money using by D.E.O. so they will have a record of how much he has payed, What would happen if she closed the case would he loose all his money, One more thing on alot of CSA paper work it staes that anyone knowly giving false information could be fines up to £1000, i wonder if the the P.W.C. was fined? and where does the money go, you should bring that up with the CSA??

kevin137

@jarhead66

As i always understood, the legislation (was clear or so i thought) that it is only responsible for repayment of CS after a doubt has been raised and DNA testing requested.

If the case has been open that long, then the CSA will not even consider DNA testing regardless of what NEW evidence suggests it is warranted.

Your friend will have to make an application to the court now, and as such the court would have to order it. You may get anything back from when you suggested it to the CSA this time, but unlikely. As they will have nothing to do with it, and as it is a long established claim they will just close... Of and don't forget, those arrears are still collectible, so even if money is owed, they will still enforce collection...