Filled out a P38S and then ended up getting payed over £5000

Goat

I am a student and was expecting to earn less than £5000 a year so filled out a P38S (to avoid paying income tax) and an R85 (to avoid paying tax on interest from savings).

In the tax year just ended, (April 06- April 07), I actually ended up getting paid nearly £9000, which means I shouldn't have filled out the P38S or the R85.

Do I have to fill out a tax return online or is there someone I can phone?


Thanks in advance for your help!

malcindebt

phone the tax office to advise what has happened. They will request that you send in your p45/60 details so they can do an informal assess ment. The underpayment can be collected in 2 ways- either by reducung your tax code in 2008/09 to collect it via any salary you have in that year, or you can choose to make payment in a lump sum.

07311022

To be honest I would complain to your payroll department too - although they won't be able to help your personal situation. They really should have known that P38S forms should only be used by students working during their vacation time (not students with part time jobs working during the full year), and shouldn't be used at any other times of the year.

Goat wrote: »

I am a student and was expecting to earn less than £5000 a year so filled out a P38S (to avoid paying income tax) and an R85 (to avoid paying tax on interest from savings).

In the tax year just ended, (April 06- April 07), I actually ended up getting paid nearly £9000, which means I shouldn't have filled out the P38S or the R85.

Do I have to fill out a tax return online or is there someone I can phone?


Thanks in advance for your help!

malcindebt

07311022 wrote: »

To be honest I would complain to your payroll department too - although they won't be able to help your personal situation. They really should have known that P38S forms should only be used by students working during their vacation time (not students with part time jobs working during the full year), and shouldn't be used at any other times of the year.

Unfortunately the employer will probably not take any responsibility.

A P38/P38S is a self decleration, if the employee is aware that they have earned more than the Personal Allowance, it is the employees responsibility to contact the tax office to request a BR/0T tax code be issued on the emergency basis.

The thing people have to remember is that tax is personal, i.e. you, the individual, are responsible whether employed under PAYE or Self employed, to ensure you are paying the correct amount of tax. Not the tax office or your employer.

amf

malcindebt wrote: »

Unfortunately the employer will probably not take any responsibility.

A P38/P38S is a self decleration, if the employee is aware that they have earned more than the Personal Allowance, it is the employees responsibility to contact the tax office to request a BR/0T tax code be issued on the emergency basis.

The thing people have to remember is that tax is personal, i.e. you, the individual, are responsible whether employed under PAYE or Self employed, to ensure you are paying the correct amount of tax. Not the tax office or your employer.

So much bad advice in this post I really don't know where to start to correct it. So I'll just begin to work through the more obvious fallacies first;-

1. The P38 is a form the employer completes at the end of the tax year to declare payments over a certain amount paid, free of tax, to employees who have not handed inP45/certificated P46 or P38S.
2.P38S should only be completed for non term time work...if the employer gets this wrong it is his responsibility for any PAYE failures.
3 Employers are responsible for the correct operation of PAYE.
4. The only emergency code is the equivelant of the basic personal allowance, operated on a week 1/month one basis.
5. Codes BR and 0T are not an emergency code in any way, shape or form. They mean something quite different.

CLAPTON

from the HMRC website:


Student employees
You do not have to deduct tax from the pay of a student who works for you solely
during a holiday if
• this form is filled in on the back, and
• the student's pay in your employment does not exceed £5,225.
Where the student's pay in your employment exceeds £5,225 you must
• deduct tax using code 'OT week 1/month 1' in accordance with paragraphs
110 and 111 of the booklet CWG2 Employer Further Guide to PAYE and NICs.
If 5 April falls during the period of employment, the student must fill in two of
these forms, one for the tax year up to 5 April, and one for the new tax year
from 6 April.

07311022

Suggestion that when criticising others for their advice, that perhaps you check your details first. I stand by the advice I gave re your point number 2. A P38S form should only be used for holiday work only, and only if the student is due to earn less than £5225 per year (i.e. this years current rate)

As backup for this please check https://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p38s.pdf

Anyone working in a payroll department should know not to accept or at least question receiving these at any other time. A lot of payroll systems also have the facility to run reports to check on employees using an NT tax code, so it certainly does help to check these too if you can.

I do agree though that a persons tax is their personal responsibility, but perhaps as a payroll professional, I like my work to be as acurate as possible too, hence the extra check I put in place.

amf wrote: »

So much bad advice in this post I really don't know where to start to correct it. So I'll just begin to work through the more obvious fallacies first;-

1. The P38 is a form the employer completes at the end of the tax year to declare payments over a certain amount paid, free of tax, to employees who have not handed inP45/certificated P46 or P38S.
2.P38S should only be completed for term time work...if the employer gets this wrong it is his responsibility for any PAYE failures.
3 Employers are responsible for the correct operation of PAYE.
4. The only emergency code is the equivelant of the basic personal allowance, operated on a week 1/month one basis.
5. Codes BR and 0T are not an emergency code in any way, shape or form. They mean something quite different.

amf

07311022 wrote: »

Suggestion that when criticising others for their advice, that perhaps you check your details first. I stand by the advice I gave re your point number 2. A P38S form should only be used for holiday work only, and only if the student is due to earn less than £5225 per year (i.e. this years current rate)

As backup for this please check www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p38s.pdf

Anyone working in a payroll department should know not to accept or at least question receiving these at any other time. A lot of payroll systems also have the facility to run reports to check on employees using an NT tax code, so it certainly does help to check these too if you can.

I do agree though that a persons tax is their personal responsibility, but perhaps as a payroll professional, I like my work to be as acurate as possible too, hence the extra check I put in place.

073 (can I call you that for short?)....methinks you have become a tad confused. My criticism was aimed at malcindebt as you will see from my quote of his post (I have not quoted your post). I would add, nonetheless, that you also seem to have missed the point that the employer seems to have got it wrong here. As such, HMRC will hold the employer liable for it's failures

07311022

Confusion was probably caused by you mentioning P38s to be used only in term time, and not holidays as I had posted (don't believe malcindebt had quoted this), and as you were incorrectly trying to correct this - I assumed that this was directed at me. And as I was the one who also suggested that they complain to payroll department, I think this also shows that I know the employer did get it wrong. Hopefully the advice I have given in the earlier posts I've made in this thread will not only help others who unfortunately find themselves in this situation, but other (perhaps not so experienced) payroll staff to try to reduce this happening with their payroll in the future.

amf wrote: »

073 (can I call you that for short?)....methinks you have become a tad confused. My criticism was aimed at malcindebt as you will see from my quote of his post (I have not quoted your post). I would add, nonetheless, that you also seem to have missed the point that the employer seems to have got it wrong here. As such, HMRC will hold the employer liable for it's failures

amf

07311022 wrote: »

Confusion was probably caused by you mentioning P38s to be used only in term time, and not holidays as I had posted (don't believe malcindebt had quoted this), and as you were incorrectly trying to correct this - I assumed that this was directed at me. And as I was the one who also suggested that they complain to payroll department, I think this also shows that I know the employer did get it wrong. Hopefully the advice I have given in the earlier posts I've made in this thread will not only help others who unfortunately find themselves in this situation, but other (perhaps not so experienced) payroll staff to try to reduce this happening with their payroll in the future.

Indeed, I missed out the word non from my original post. I have now corrected this. Thanks for pointing it out:)

kydon

The same thing happened to me and they just deduct the tax! If i remember well though i called them and told them about the situation!