help with lowells bankruptcy pertition

steve77

we have given it some more thought if they accept £550. tomorrow its not a problem as it will then be below the £750, threshold for bankruptcy.

If they dont if I have read the petition right we can fight on a few fronts firstly they should never of gone down this road as the amount is in dispute and they have never complied with our request for a copy of the letter of assignment for the debt or sent any other proof that we owed them. Second we could never set aside the statutory demand as we were never aware of it and the first we knew of the hearing was when we received the paperwork. Thirdly when we got the paperwork we contacted them to say if they billed us for the true amount owed we would pay without further delay, they led us to believe the hearing would be adjurned while they investigated and would confirm in writing we waited for that confirmation and when this didnt come through we phoned them on friday this is when we found out the hearing was still going ahead meaning it was to late to raise a defence. I believe they stalled things knowing what they were doing as they now need to go for bankruptcy to guarantee their costs. I'm hoping if the hearing does go ahead the judge allows my wife to put forward her side of the story and throws it out as they have at best acted shabbily at worst criminally. Also in the paperwork it says they have taken the action as they believe my wife is unable to pay this is clearly not true as we tried paying yesterday and will be trying again tomorrow.

What do you think guys;(

Mouse1812

If your wife can articulate that as well as you just have I can't see a judge agreeing to the bankruptcy petition - but don't rely upon my opinion.

The important point is to stress that it is a disputed and unproven debt.

Get her to call National Debtline first thing tomorrow - Website: National Debtline Telephone: 0808 808 4000 - and get some free advice. CAB can be a bit hit or miss.

steve77

Mouse1812 wrote: »

If your wife can articulate that as well as you just have I can't see a judge agreeing to the bankruptcy petition - but don't rely upon my opinion.

The important point is to stress that it is a disputed and unproven debt.

Get her to call National Debtline first thing tomorrow - Website: National Debtline Telephone: 0808 808 4000 - and get some free advice. CAB can be a bit hit or miss.

Cheers Mouse, we have been in contact with national debt helpline they were the ones who advised us to get it below £750.and it will stop the bankruptcy hearing but someone else has just said it only had to be at £750. at the time of the arranging the hearing;s.

Worst case scenario if these thugs get their way and she is made bankrupt for £1250 including their costs how at risk is our family home jointly owned that we our 4 dependent children and cancer sufferer mother in law all live in;(

fermi

May also be useful.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/part/IX/chapter/I/crossheading/creditors-petition

freddy911

steve77 wrote: »

Worst case scenario if these thugs get their way and she is made bankrupt for £1250 including their costs how at risk is our family home jointly owned that we our 4 dependent children and cancer sufferer mother in law all live in;(

The thing you need to be aware of is once made Bankrupt that £1250 debt becomes a lot more. The OR will first seek to recover there own costs first before paying the debt which can run into 1000's. If there is equity in your home they will seek to sell it to recover this money and if they appoint an insolvency practioner to deal with your assets you could be looking at 10's of 1000's of £'s for this £1250 debt.

If you fail to convince the judge on the day that this debt is unproved and the judge wants to proceed with the BR then you need to avoid this at all cost if you can scrape together the money to pay the debt in full you will be saving yourself a lot of money in the long run if your home has equity in it, or you have other assets the OR can get there hands on.

debt_doctor

Hi,
At the hearing the District Judge will need to satisfy themselves of two things;
1) You owe the money - your chance to dispute the monies said to be owed by your earlier arguments. An existing CCJ would be proof that the monies were owed - an urgent set aside would be the action neccessary if a CCJ exists, if there were grounds.
2) You are insolvent. - the test of can you pay your debts as they fall due.

The procedure of challenging a Creditors Petition is firstly giving 7 days notice to the creditor and Court of your intention to defend - The District Judge has discretion to waiver this, perhaps by adjournment. If you have not given notice then I urge you to do so, even though it is late in the day.

At the hearing you would put your arguments as to why you don't owe the amount claimed. The creditor must prove that both the petition was served personally and that the SD had been brought to the debtors attention.
If the debt has been paid in full (less creditors court costs) before the hearing then the petition must be dismissed, but the DJ may order the payment of costs.
If the debt is reduced to below £750 before the hearing then the DJ still has the discretion to make the bankruptcy order, conduct of both sides would be taken in to account. (it is only when setting aside a SD can you rely upon it being set aside by reducing debt below £750.)
Your key argument seems to be "there is a substantial dispute of the monies said to be owed." That should be quoted in any notice to the court and creditor.
On the day it will be up to the DJ, and frankly, being unrepresented at such an important hearing is detrimental in itself. Are there any local insolvency solicitors who could represent- and is it affordable?
Lowells have become masters at obtaining bankruptcy Orders for low level of debt - is there any way you could pay the whole debt (preferably including costs as Lowell have been known to re issue a further petition for costs if over £750)
If that was possible it would bring certainty with a view for you afterwards to send a formal complaint to Lowells about how the debt was arrived at, the further view being a refer to FOS who can look at the unfairness of Lowells actions as opposed to overturning a court decision, which they cannot do. But FOS could award a compensation based upon failures / unfairness prior to the hearing.
If made BR, the costs soar almost immediately, I would urge anyone who has assets at risk in BR to try to obtain full payment and fight afterwards rather than risk the DJ decision against these Petitioning Proffessionals.

DD

steve77

debt_doctor wrote: »

Hi,
At the hearing the District Judge will need to satisfy themselves of two things;
1) You owe the money - your chance to dispute the monies said to be owed by your earlier arguments. An existing CCJ would be proof that the monies were owed - an urgent set aside would be the action neccessary if a CCJ exists, if there were grounds.
2) You are insolvent. - the test of can you pay your debts as they fall due.

The procedure of challenging a Creditors Petition is firstly giving 7 days notice to the creditor and Court of your intention to defend - The District Judge has discretion to waiver this, perhaps by adjournment. If you have not given notice then I urge you to do so, even though it is late in the day.

At the hearing you would put your arguments as to why you don't owe the amount claimed. The creditor must prove that both the petition was served personally and that the SD had been brought to the debtors attention.
If the debt has been paid in full (less creditors court costs) before the hearing then the petition must be dismissed, but the DJ may order the payment of costs.
If the debt is reduced to below £750 before the hearing then the DJ still has the discretion to make the bankruptcy order, conduct of both sides would be taken in to account. (it is only when setting aside a SD can you rely upon it being set aside by reducing debt below £750.)
Your key argument seems to be "there is a substantial dispute of the monies said to be owed." That should be quoted in any notice to the court and creditor.
On the day it will be up to the DJ, and frankly, being unrepresented at such an important hearing is detrimental in itself. Are there any local insolvency solicitors who could represent- and is it affordable?
Lowells have become masters at obtaining bankruptcy Orders for low level of debt - is there any way you could pay the whole debt (preferably including costs as Lowell have been known to re issue a further petition for costs if over £750)
If that was possible it would bring certainty with a view for you afterwards to send a formal complaint to Lowells about how the debt was arrived at, the further view being a refer to FOS who can look at the unfairness of Lowells actions as opposed to overturning a court decision, which they cannot do. But FOS could award a compensation based upon failures / unfairness prior to the hearing.
If made BR, the costs soar almost immediately, I would urge anyone who has assets at risk in BR to try to obtain full payment and fight afterwards rather than risk the DJ decision against these Petitioning Proffessionals.

DD

Thanx DD we have today paid £550.00 and told them we will pay the other £300.00 by the end of the month. Lowells have said its their intention to adjurn the hearing but to ask for costs to be awarded. We would like to ask the Judge to dismiss the case and not award costs as it should never of got to this stage our reasons for believing this are as follows. We received letters from red, lowells, hamptons we have only learnt recently they are one and the same all asking for my wife to pay £846.00 on an old vodafone debt. We wrote to all of them asking for proof that we owed and more importantly that they now owned the debt by way of a letter of assignment, to date we have never received any proof from them and they deny any contact with us. The first time we had any sort of confirmation was when we received the bankruptcy hearing papers. They say they sent a statutory demand via a process server but if he posted it at this address the fairies had away with it because we never got it. We are hoping the Judge will allow my wife to put her point across and not award costs if they do she will pay it at a £1 per week while we pursue the case with the FOS.

Lou67

Glad you got it sorted Steve :beer:

debt_doctor

Good luck Steve,
That seems to be the most potentially successful outcome based upon your argument and means.

Please let us know how you get on.

DD

Vodafone

Hi steve77,

It's just a quick post to acknowledge this thread and to confirm that I replied to your posts on the CAG Forum a moment ago.

If you'd like any further assistance from me just let me know.

Thanks,

Lee

Web Relations Team

Vodafone UK