Advice on employee please

zzzLazyDaisy

OP I suggest that you visit the ACAS site and download their recommended disciplinary procedures for small businesses, and make sure you follow them.

They also have sample letters for you to use.

It is not enough to give a written warning - you must go through the proper procedure (fair written notice of meeting and cause of concern, right to be accompanied, full opportunity to state his case, right of appeal, confirmation in writing etc).

If you dont go through the proper procedure you could well find yourself losing in tribunal, even though the reasons for dismissal may have been fair if the proper procedure had been followed.

The proper procedure takes time, and you need to give him time and opportunity to improve, with support and training before giving him another warning. It will take time. If you don't want to go down this route then follow uncertain's suggestion and check out compromise agreements - but that does require his agreement since it is in essence a mutual parting of the ways. It is the only way to legally prevent him from going to tribunal and since he will lose his job and also give up his right to complain about this, you will probably have to make it worth his while financially.

Take advice before going down this route though, as it could backfire on you if he refuses and you later dismiss him anyway (there are proposals to change the law about this to protect the employer but there's no saying when those changes will be made)

SueC_2

Uncertain wrote: »

That surely would be a compromise agreement with a glowing reference and a few months pay.

Which is also an option.

He'd still need a 'Reason for Leaving' though. And 'redundancy' would still sit better than 'under performance'.

EccentricRavenJewellery

I really feel for your situation and applaud you for trying to do the right thing by your staff.
Whatever you do, don't let him resign.
He won't be able to claim JSA if he resigns voluntarily. (As I understand it)
Try ringing ACAS, their advisors are very helpful and may be able to help you lose him nicely. Is his contract up for renewal? Could you delete his post, having others take over his responsibilities? That way, he's made redundant. Could you find another post for him, that he can do? E.g. maybe cleaner, caretaker?
I think you should try and find something to write into a complimentary but honest reference so that when he's seeking other work it'll be a little easier.

JamesK10

Uncertain wrote: »

Well there is a load of nonsense in this post!

First of all, it is not a redundancy situation. It is a post, not a person that becomes redundant. So, unless the job no longer needs doing you can't make him redundant. Doing so would open the gates to an unfair dismissal claim.

So, it comes to capability which is a perfectly proper reason for dismissal providing the proper steps are followed. However the OP has already made up their mind that warnings are not going to work so if this gets out the process is flawed and the dismissal becomes unfair.

If you are going to go through the warning process it needs to be done properly and with an open mind giving the employee a reasonable chance to improve.

The final option is to pay them off, which need not cost a fortune. The only fully safe way to do this is via a compromise agreement which will incur some legal costs.

Thanks for letting me know my personal experience of redundancies was nonsense, maybe in the case of the very first one I could have challenged it according to your definition but I would never have worked in my sector again instead of having a few more years somewhere else (another colleague higher up did win the challenge at a different time, got his compo but didn't work again).

zzzLazyDaisy

JamesK10 wrote: »

Thanks for letting me know my personal experience of redundancies was nonsense, maybe in the case of the very first one I could have challenged it according to your definition but I would never have worked in my sector again instead of having a few more years somewhere else (another colleague higher up did win the challenge at a different time, got his compo but didn't work again).

That may be true, and there is often a difference between what the law says and what goes on in practice.

But the employers who flout the law are taking a calculated risk that the employee concerned will be too afraid to challenge the decision and/or go to a tribunal. The number of annual claims to employment tribunals tell a different story.

In any event - all we can do on here is to make sure that the employer understands his legal obligations and the employee's legal rights. If he then chooses to take a risk and do things differently, that's his choice.

Suggesting that he make someone redundant when this is clearly not a redundancy situation is not helpful to anyone (in my view).

capeverde

Thank you for taking time to respond. I am trying to do the right thing and it is a balancing act. In answer to your questions, there isn't really a roll for him to be moved into as its only a small company with half a dozen employees. I have exhausted so much time going over things that its affecting what I do as well. In the written warning, I have detailed the reasons, given what improvements I expect and a time frame for that to be achieved. When I said on here 'that isn't going to happen' it was merely me being a realist as if he's not picked things up in 15 months its not going to change in another 2 weeks. Were not talking rocket science either here.

Hes got a young family and as I said is a great guy, so I want to try and make things as painless as possible for him, which obviously isn't easy given the circumstances. He said to me today that he was thinking about handing in his notice because he could see all the mistakes he was making was impacting the business. Normally Im quite ruthless, but in this case, I do want to do all I can for him.

BobQ

The employment laws were really not intended to govern employers like you.

You seem to have a redundancy situation. You have employed someone to do an unskilled job that he was capable of performing. You have reviewed your workforce and decided that you no longer need this job to be undertaken. You have also defined another job and given him a chance to do it and he has shown himself incapable of this.

Whether you have the evidence to justify making him redundant legally I do not know but redundancy would be the best option for him. Did you given him a clear job description when he started? Does he have a clear job description now? How different is they?

ohreally

capeverde wrote: »

In answer to your questions, there isn't really a roll for him to be moved into as its only a small company with half a dozen employees.

Could his original duties be accomodated on a part-time basis or is that also a non-starter - perhaps spliting his time beteween elements of his current role that he can cope with and elements of his original duties?

colino

If your being honest with yourself, he was a handy extra pair of hands when you were getting on your feet and at a time where quality and accuracy weren't paramount. Now as you are putting in systems and being more professional (and effective) in what you do, you realise there isn't a hole for this peg, who appears to be neither round or square.
Go through the process, make sure you really have anticipated any potential role that would have been suitable in the short-term, and if there is nothing of value he can add, sack him.
Busines is far too tough to be paying out good money for no return, and while it never becomes easy, you will be a better operator for looking at the overall business than one individual.

dickydonkin

capeverde wrote: »

However, as the company has grown, I spend less time on the factory floor. That has meant that he has had to learn basic processes to fit in with production.
The problem is, its now got to a stage, where everything he does is done wrong, despite training and many hours spent showing the most basic tasks, everything he produces needs to be re-made.

I just wonder why this guy is unable to carry out 'basic processes in production'.

Where I used to work, we had numerous employees who worked on large production machinery which manufactured products that required a stringent quality requirement.

Without being derogatory, some of these guys were not academically gifted or skilled in previous employment, but we ensured that when they started, they were provided with a comprehensive induction and training regime.

This also included health and safety (which was my responsibility) right through to 'on the job training' with constant monitoring and supervision until they were deemed as competent to operate the equipment.

I just wonder if the quality of 'training' offered to this guy was fit for purpose.

Has he picked up 'bad habits' from when he did the 'fetching and carrying' and is assuming he is doing the right thing because nobody has told him otherwise in the past?

The OP has confirmed that he spends less time on the shop floor and if this operator has not been trained, monitored and supervised properly, then it is hardly surprising that mistakes are occurring.

We are all different - what may seem like 'basic tasks' to some people could be more complicated to others.

It seems he has a great work ethic and is reliable (great attributes - all to rare nowadays) but why not start training this guy with a structured training regime? - basically from scratch and if after that there are still issues, then at least you have given him every opportunity to improve.

I appreciate that time and effort will need to be invested into doing this, but valuable time is being wasted in rectifying the employees mistakes anyway and if he was replaced, then the replacement would also need to be trained from scratch.

OP - have a review at how this person was trained and was it provided in a way he could comprehend?

I hope it works out for both parties involved.

BobQ wrote: »

You seem to have a redundancy situation.

No he doesn't.