Lender has terminated my loan in error, where do I stand

sheilds

What if it had been your electricity supplier who had cut off your supply by accident/human error?
Would you sit shivering in the dark on your high horse waiting for them to sort it out-after all it was their fault?
Or would you get on the phone like a grown up and get to the bottom of the problem?
Just a thought...

pvt

Can't believe this tosh has reached over 170 posts.

Any normal person would have worked this out reasonably with the loan provider, then complained and got some compo out of it.

Professor Bumtouch here has deluded himself into thinking he's outwitted the massed forces of the banking industry and will come out on top.

Erm, he won't.

cos_2

pvt wrote: »

Can't believe this tosh has reached over 170 posts.

Any normal person would have worked this out reasonably with the loan provider, then complained and got some compo out of it.

Professor Bumtouch here has deluded himself into thinking he's outwitted the massed forces of the banking industry and will come out on top.

Erm, he won't.

However, I don't believe there is such a thing as the massed forces of the banking industry. I think there are many, many individuals, sitting in their own wee office making up their own rules as they go along.

Each bank and each section has a multitude of folk spouting opinion. Banks make a hash of obeying the law very often, and make a hash of the economy more than we'd like.

I'm sure many of us has had communication from our bank which was clearly hogwash! I've complained more than once about my bank's inconsistencies between its actions and public statements - to no avail, of course. They simply don't give a toss.

Conrad2

cos wrote: »

They simply don't give a toss.

Good post. They really don't.

Professor Bumtouch? Cool! Bumtouch v Lender. I'm gonna use it.

The message on this forum, from most, seems to be let them doo doo on you, then phone them up and beg forgiveness.

Well bu**er that, and if they lose the money they loaned me, so be it - they could have avoided this if they had got back to me when I first complained. I am livid with them. They don't listen and they carry on as they please. I am lucky, because despite what people are saying, I am the injured party, and have at least attempted to put things right. I am lucky also as I can hold out as long as I like. They will not get away without putting things right, and I have no problem with continuing the payments if that is what it comes to - that is what I would be doing anyway if they hadn't started this. But make no mistake, they are going to at least have a hard time from the OFT because their systems have failed big time. And contrary to what many think here, they are responsible for their actions, not me.

And the more they compound their mistake, the tougher they will be dealt with.

They are in the wrong, and whatever they do between now and putting things right, my family and I can live with - it isn't just me in this. I don't have to be bullied into supplication by them. Whatever the result, and whatever the opinion of this forum, I have done nothing wrong. I have tried to sort it out, and the guilty lender has just kept on offending/failing to comply/acting unlawfully/breaching etc. etc.

If I'm in the wrong, then there is something wrong with the world. Or, perhaps it's just internet forums, I don't know.

I might be deluded thinking I can write off the debt, but the worst that is going to happen to me is a repayment holiday and a renegotiated deal, possibly with some damages for their breaches of care.

But someone should stand up to them.

No wonder they get away with it.

Conrad2

sheilds wrote: »

What if it had been your electricity supplier who had cut off your supply by accident/human error?
Would you sit shivering in the dark on your high horse waiting for them to sort it out-after all it was their fault?
Or would you get on the phone like a grown up and get to the bottom of the problem?
Just a thought...

A better analogy...

What if your electricity supplier by-passed your meter by accident/human error so you weren't getting charged?

Would you sit on the phone until they sorted it. Or send them a letter and let them deal with it in their own time.

What would the rest of you grown ups do. I suspect I know.

Just a thought...

CKhalvashi

OP, we have at least 5 solicitors in the same boat on this one (I checked with our two last week, who both specialise in contract law and both deal with large sums of money).

As I've already stated before being threatened by yourself, you're making a fool of yourself here, and it looks like no judge will agree with you.

To put this on a moral standing; HSBC messed up on the security of a large loan about 2 years ago. If I thought they were going to let us out of £8.2m of (secured on a floating charge) liabilities, I could quite rightly think again.

All this hinges on a case of whether this was a serious enough breach, and my limited understanding of this area of law leads me to think it doesn't.

Personal loans work in the same way; the bank will inevitably (through a court) have a floating charge on your assets. This is complicated, and I wouldn't want to try and go there.

Have you consulted with a solicitor yet? Banks have 8 weeks from reasonable date of delivery to reply.

CK

Conrad2

CKhalvashi wrote: »

All this hinges on a case of whether this was a serious enough breach, and my limited understanding of this area of law leads me to think it doesn't.

Good point, and that is what I have been trying to get across.

This isn't a case of using a dodgy default notice as a loop hole.

Their systems have fritzed. A FALSE default has somehow been generated, and nothing in their processes has allowed them to independantly identify it - tomorrow, it will be a month since I first contacted. I have attempted to make them aware, but they seem to be ignoring me, and continue acting outside of CCA74, and OFT guidance. They have withdrawn credit (without due care) and contravened DPA98. They are now attempting to make me repay the full amount, yet on Sept 1, my account was fully up to date.

And they still have not contacted me with regard to what is going on.

If that isn't a fundamental breech, I'm not sure what is.

redpete

Conrad2 wrote: »

The message on this forum, from most, seems to be let them doo doo on you, then phone them up and beg forgiveness.

Or, more accurately, the message from most is that you should have phoned them up, explained the situation and insisted they rectify their error.

CKhalvashi

Conrad2 wrote: »

Good point, and that is what I have been trying to get across.

This isn't a case of using a dodgy default notice as a loop hole.

Their systems have fritzed. A FALSE default has somehow been generated, and nothing in their processes has allowed them to independantly identify it - tomorrow, it will be a month since I first contacted. I have attempted to make them aware, but they seem to be ignoring me, and continue acting outside of CCA74, and OFT guidance. They have withdrawn credit (without due care) and contravened DPA98. They are now attempting to make me repay the full amount, yet on Sept 1, my account was fully up to date.

And they still have not contacted me with regard to what is going on.

If that isn't a fundamental breech, I'm not sure what is.

It's because banks are occasionally allowed to mess up, in exactly the same way as you're allowed to mess up. There was a way this could be done, but that loophole was closed years ago.

They should be attempting to make you pay the full amount, as you have made no payment last month, therefore they are invoking a clause in the agreement that lets them do this. You signed the agreement, not anyone else.

If you'd let them sort the problem out, you may have got £100-ish for your troubles, however you insisted on defaulting, and this was where you went wrong.

CK

ETA: They have another 6 weeks to respond to your complaint IIRC. You then have the right to go to the Ombudsman, who will agree with the views here.

Conrad2

redpete wrote: »

Or, more accurately, the message from most is that you should have phoned them up, explained the situation and insisted they rectify their error.

This isn't intended to be agressive. I am writing this to try to clarify my actions.

My first contact with them was by phone, not to query the false default as I wasn't aware of it at the time, but instead to query/warn them of a note I had received by mail that I seriously thought was a scam. I was told by the call centre that it was probably genuine, but they couldn't confirm that they used such notes. I was a bit angry about that, as at that moment, it could still have been a scam. I was also angry at the possibility that this was an inference of default without informing me of non payments (nothing like that has ever been received, and my credit report's only negative report is an erroneous late payment for August). So I informed the call centre that the lender is obliged to contact me with notice of non payment before considering me to have defaulted.

This is true, in fact I believe two notices of non payment should be sent before default is considered, and that should reflect a period in which two payments should have been made. This is in CCA74. I had checked my records and was able to confirm that my bank had made all payments up to date. I made this clear to them.

As I was unaware of what was to come, I assumed they may actually do something about this phone call. But no, a week or so later I get a default notice that was issued without fulfilling the requirement of properly checking their records to ensure that a debt is not incorrectly pursued. At that point, even an erroneous late payment in August would still not have constituted a default, so it would not have taken much of a check to see that an error had been made.

On receiving this default notice (which I consider to have no significance in this case other than evidence of a broken system), I decided that I would not be happy to contact them by phone, as no record or receipt would be provided, or definite proof of what had happened. So I contacted them via their own online channel (a month ago), which they provide for such issues, and for which I received a receipt, but alas, still no response.

Given the failure of my first phone call, I was keen to ensure that everything that was was done from this point on was recorded and undeniable, and therefore provided in writing.

I have responded to every action they have taken with a letter by return and sent special delivery. I have also requested information and compliance. All of these have been received, and no response has been given to any of the points raised or assertions given.

These were not complaints, they were statements supported by evidence, some of it provided to me by the lender themselves, and supplied to them in order to correct existing, and prevent further errors.

I realise the whole thing sounds incredible, but it is true, and it is at the root of why I am so angry with them. This is a massive failure of all their systems to observe all the acts and guidance that govern consumer credit agreements.

The OFT will not be very impressed with a management system that specifically requires a phone call from the debtor to remedy their error, and even that is not guaranteed. They are obliged to provide checks that ensure an individual is not pursued improperly, and they should work independent of the consumer. Remember, the OFT consider that if this can happen to one person, it can happen to anyone. As they say, they must consider the best interest of all UK consumers.

I was abroad for five months last year, what would have happened if this error had occurred then? It could have reached county court proceeding without me ever having defaulted. The lender would have been in horrendous trouble.