what is a final pension salary worth

Mr_Incredible

kidmugsy wrote: »

No, it hasn't got more valuable in the least. But how valuable it is has just got much more conspicuous. In particular, I'd guess that the expense of public sector final salary pensions has just become even more conspicuous.

Well by contrast the pay is crap lol!, pension and flexi is all thats left thats good

BobQ

Mr_Incredible wrote: »

Well by contrast the pay is crap lol!, pension and flexi is all thats left thats good

Not really, its true that same public sector jobs pay less than private sector equivalents, some specialist jobs are particularly poorly paid even with a good pension as are some middle management roles. But many of the general clerical and administrative jobs are quite well paid compared with the private sector (especially with the pension). The problem is that qualification and skills based comparisons are rarely done and most averages are meaningless..

atush

Mr_Incredible wrote: »

fair point but in my case I do and I guess most people want a partner and maybe kids in the future if they haven't already

i agree, hence my higher 30%+ figure.

atush

Mr_Incredible wrote: »

Well by contrast the pay is crap lol!, pension and flexi is all thats left thats good

Are you trying to say that Public sector pay is cr*p? If so, you are behind the times. Much of the public sector earns as much as the private now. The pay gap used to be larger, but has narrowed int he last 2 decades.

Mr_Incredible

atush wrote: »

Are you trying to say that Public sector pay is cr*p? If so, you are behind the times. Much of the public sector earns as much as the private now. The pay gap used to be larger, but has narrowed int he last 2 decades.

This is falsehood except for general admin and clerical type roles, I've seen the bias studies used to substantiate various actions by government and purported by certain businesses consultants brought in to ostensibly help er 'review' i.e. slash.

I've spent many years working private sector also so I know the difference first hand. We're also working with less staff now but expected to produce more so its very stresseful.

I'm not complaining though because many are out of work at this time and my great goes out to them.

Mr_Incredible

[QUOTE=BobQ;56961397The_problem_is_that_qualification_and_skills_based_comparisons_are_rarely_done_and_most_averages_are_meaningless..[/QUOTE]

This I totally agree with

atush

except for general admin and clerical type roles

This bit is what I am talking about. It is these positions which have larger numbers over all, and the ones that have met and in some cases exceeded any pay gap that used to exist.

Yet they still have a Gold plated(coming up to be Silver Guilt) pensions. The higher skilled positions are fewer and farther between. And in many cases these have a substantial boost to salary in the last decade of work that will amplify any FS/DB pension accrued permanently.

hyubh

atush wrote: »

"except for general admin and clerical type roles"

This bit is what I am talking about. It is these positions which have larger numbers over all, and the ones that have met and in some cases exceeded any pay gap that used to exist.

Er, evidence? Difficult to provide of course, but the clearest sort would be details of salary levels in an outsourced admin department for one council vs. the salary levels for an in-house equivalent in a similarly-sized council.

atush

Evidence was referenced to hear in another thread where research had been done on this matter.

I have no idea what the link to the independant research is though. I am assuming it was on one of the Many threads by disgruntled PS workers about pension reforms.

hyubh

atush wrote: »

Evidence was referenced to hear in another thread where research had been done on this matter.

Which thread?

I have no idea what the link to the independant research is though.

IMO it isn't so much the 'independence' of such research as how far it takes outsourcing into account (a brief look at LGPS admitted body lists over the past 6 years or so will show an ever-increasing level of outsourcing). E.g., if cleaners and dinner ladies have been TUPE'd to a private contractor but HR not, then plainly, the average levels of pay in a local authority are going to increase as the total payroll in absolute terms falls; conversely, if HR is outsourced but cleaners and dinner ladies not, then the average pay will fall. Hence my suggestion (no doubt ideal and difficult to achieve) that you should be looking at pay levels between comparable in- and out-sourced departments across different councils.