Help! Difficult situation

Sambucus_Nigra

madvixen wrote: »

Ok.
1) Did you receive a full training plan? Was this followed through with the correct training/acompaniments?
2) Have you received any warnings that your performance was not up to scratch following your last probationary meeting?
3) What actions were agreed at your last meeting? Were these followed up on?
4) Have you had any performance reviews in the last 3 months?

Again, completely irrelevant.

Sorry OP - but an employer can get rid of you if they want, at any point in the first 2 years, with no come back for you for unfair dismissal unless you can show that it's on discrimination, whistleblowing or a few other reasons. I wouldn't resign, just say that you can't resign for benefits purposes.

Sambucus_Nigra

madvixen wrote: »

Actually it isn't. By asking the question, I am trying to establish if the company has followed the procedures that it lays out in it's contracts. I recruit on probationary contracts frequently and they set out, very clearly what the trainee can expect in terms of training, what the business expectations of that trainee are in terms of performance and what the procedure would be should they not perform as required.

The only thing that you need to know is that the OP has been employed since April 2012 - when the right to go to a tribunal for unfair dismissal moved from one year to 2.

All the probationary contracts, training plans, expectations, performance and procedures can be the best in the world; but they can still pretty much just get rid of someone for no reason at any point in the first 2 years. You are giving the OP false hope when it comes to dealing with this.

OP - the first response to your question pretty much covers it all.

madvixen

hollow_crown wrote: »

1) Yes, full training was given for the role.
2) No warnings at all. Had weekly reviews with my manager who said things were "getting better etc"
3) I was to hold weekly meetings with my line manager which were done.
4) No performance reviews at all.

I appreciate your help with all of this, thankyou

Ok. As a manager, I find it very odd that the sort of meeting you were invited too was called early. Were you asked if you wanted representation? The line about the job role not being replaced also bothers me, it makes me wonder if they are making redundancies.
The fact that you had no warnings, in fact you were told you were improving, is the key here for me.
When I have a newbie on a probationary contract, they receive 2 accompaniments a week with myself or a trainer. They receive full written feedback after each of these and are left with no doubt as to where they need to improve. Performance management steps (as you are facing) should NEVER come as a surprise to the employee.
In terms of what I would do, personally I push it back to head office but that is me and I have very few financial responsibilities and no dependants to consider. Plus I'm a stubborn cow :rotfl:
It really sounds to me as though you are being made redundant but without the redundancy package or following correct procedures. I would be on the phone to ACAS tomorrow/Monday before you make a decision.
I wish you the best of luck.

LittleVoice

garybarlowforpresident wrote: »

Is your performance going to improve dramatically in the next seven days?

As you have been employed for such a short time you have very few rights. I would advise resigning and if possible agreeing a neutral reference.

With regard to benefits, your JSA may be sanctioned for up to 26 weeks, this will be at the discretion of a Decision Maker. You will still be eligible for housing benefit during any sanction.

I would advise not resigning - unless you could be certain of finding a new job in September or have no need of JSA.

If you don't want to claim JSA, then see if you can get an agreed reference - start and termination dates of employment, job title and a statement regarding not having any reason to doubt honesty. (This is also where they might be willing to add that the role was not recruited to after you left - which could make it look better to a future potential employer.)

I wouldn't resign unless they would agree not to include in the reference that you were facing disciplinary action when you resigned.

If you did resign then the JSA Decision Maker would almost certainly decide that you were not eligible as you had given up your job voluntarily.

madvixen

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

The only thing that you need to know is that the OP has been employed since April 2012 - when the right to go to a tribunal for unfair dismissal moved from one year to 2.

All the probationary contracts, training plans, expectations, performance and procedures can be the best in the world; but they can still pretty much just get rid of someone for no reason at any point in the first 2 years. You are giving the OP false hope when it comes to dealing with this.

OP - the first response to your question pretty much covers it all.

I haven't mentioned unfair dismissal at all. I'm well aware of employment law. What I am trying to ascertain is if the company involved have followed their own procedures correctly. While the OPs situation will not change, it may make the difference as to how long he can hang onto his job for. Giving him additional time to find a new job and negotiate a reference.

hollow_crown

madvixen wrote: »

Ok. As a manager, I find it very odd that the sort of meeting you were invited too was called early. Were you asked if you wanted representation? The line about the job role not being replaced also bothers me, it makes me wonder if they are making redundancies.
The fact that you had no warnings, in fact you were told you were improving, is the key here for me.
When I have a newbie on a probationary contract, they receive 2 accompaniments a week with myself or a trainer. They receive full written feedback after each of these and are left with no doubt as to where they need to improve. Performance management steps (as you are facing) should NEVER come as a surprise to the employee.
In terms of what I would do, personally I push it back to head office but that is me and I have very few financial responsibilities and no dependants to consider. Plus I'm a stubborn cow :rotfl:
It really sounds to me as though you are being made redundant but without the redundancy package or following correct procedures. I would be on the phone to ACAS tomorrow/Monday before you make a decision.
I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks a lot for this. My girlfriends parents actually mentioned that it'd be best to ring ACAS and also to not hand my resignation in. Will be doing that first thing Monday morning.

With a 12 month rental contract for my apartment and only being 6 months in...the last thing I need is to not be able to get benefits...:)

Thanks again

ohreally

madvixen wrote: »

I'm well aware of employment law

Thats not being evidenced here.

Uncertain

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Again, completely irrelevant.

Sorry OP - but an employer can get rid of you if they want, at any point in the first 2 years, with no come back for you for unfair dismissal unless you can show that it's on discrimination, whistleblowing or a few other reasons. I wouldn't resign, just say that you can't resign for benefits purposes.

No it is not irrelevant.

The OP cannot claim UNFAIR dismissal but if the firm fail to follow any contractual procedures the the OP may be able to claim WRONGFUL dismissal.

OK, the payout won't be huge. As you have pointed out they could have dismissed without reason but the normal award would be full salary for however long it would have taken to have followed the procedures correctly.

sniggings

If you resign you can almost be sure to be sanctioned for JSA, if that is not a problem then resign and get a good reference, or you could wait and get sacked if you need JSA, but could still get sanctioned anyway.

As you have only been there a short while, if the reference is going to be crap, maybe just forgetting about this job on any application forms would be an idea.

Uncertain

garybarlowforpresident wrote: »

Any tribunal action would be a great deal of stress for very little reward. Added to that, no potential for a decent reference (although it could be used as a bargaining tool in the interim), and the potential to be marked out as a troublemaker (these things have a habit of getting out) - would you recommend such an action?

I would use it as a means of getting a legally binding reference as part of a COT3 agreement.

It is hard to see it would get to tribunal. Either the firm have followed their contractual procedure or they haven't. If they haven' t they have no defence and any lawyer would advise them to settle.