CPI falls to 2.5%, RPI falls to 2.9%

Loughton_Monkey

CLAPTON wrote: »

You really ought to develop more catholic tasts.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, that by 'catholic' [small 'c'] you are meaning broad-minded or universal. Otherwise I would be highly insulted and resign from the forum immediately! [Ironic, really, that with a capital C it means entirely the reverse].

CLAPTON wrote: »

then if the price of gin goes up you could then switch to cheaper drinks

Absolutely not. I've tried this cheap French/Spanish gin and would rather drink p*ss. I like Gordons. Lovingly distilled in London. Bottled, packaged, and shipped in gas guzzling trucks all the way to Spain. Bought by me [while there anyway] and bought at £9 a litre, and shipped all the way back to Loughton in my gas guzzling car, not having paid Mr Osborne a penny alcohol tax.

It helps the bankrupt Spanish. Helps truck drivers. Helps UK exports. Helps the economy generally. Most of all it helps me.

Does b**ger all for the environment, but I like as many air-miles on my food as possible just to irritate these misguided tree-huggers.

At the end of the day, I'm not a particularly tolerant person.

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Oh dear.....

Oh dear, what?

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

BTW, I highly doubt the word "consultation" means asking the nation. Happy to be proven wrong, but until that point, I'd suggest you are talking out of your rear to score cheap points for some unknown reason. As you are suggesting I do such a thing, I assume you could tell me how and where?

The consultation starts next month. Why not google "ons rpi consultation"?

I wonder how many of the people sufficiently outraged to comment on the guardian site, BBC site or here will be bothered to participate.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

The consultation starts next month. Why not google "ons rpi consultation"?

I wonder how many of the people sufficiently outraged to comment on the guardian site, BBC site or here will be bothered to participate.

So what are you suggesting here....

That we'll all be allowed, as individuals, to have our voices heard?

The government and bodies (independant or otherwise) do a LOT of consulting. There was consultations over high speed rail for instance. It doesn't mean asking everyones individual opinions.

You, having tagged on to chews post, appear to be suggesting it will be just that.

How many consultations have you taken part in over the last year, instead of just writing your thoughts in a post on here?

The ONS will consult with it's customer base. Not the general public. I don't know why we have to pretend otherwise? We may be able to access a questionnair, but there won't be much more than that.

For example, one of the ONS' latest consultations on public service productivity involved 20 people from selected organisations. The changes to birth cohorts had 10 people consulted.

I have no idea what the point some of you are trying to make, or mock here, actually is?

Loughton_Monkey

So to summarise the interesting part of the debate on RPI so far:

chewmylegoff wrote: »

.....my reading is that the ONS is consulting with the public ....

Graham_Devon wrote: »

...BTW, I highly doubt the word "consultation" means asking the nation.....

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Oh dear.....

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Oh dear, what?

wotsthat wrote: »

The consultation starts next month. Why not google "ons rpi consultation"....

Graham_Devon wrote: »

.....I have no idea what the point some of you are trying to make, or mock here, actually is?

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So what are you suggesting here....

That we'll all be allowed, as individuals, to have our voices heard?

The government and bodies (independant or otherwise) do a LOT of consulting. There was consultations over high speed rail for instance. It doesn't mean asking everyones individual opinions.

You, having tagged on to chews post, appear to be suggesting it will be just that.

How many consultations have you taken part in over the last year, instead of just writing your thoughts in a post on here?

The ONS will consult with it's customer base. Not the general public. I don't know why we have to pretend otherwise? We may be able to access a questionnair, but there won't be much more than that.

For example, one of the ONS' latest consultations on public service productivity involved 20 people from selected organisations. The changes to birth cohorts had 10 people consulted.

I have no idea what the point some of you are trying to make, or mock here, actually is?

The ONS will put a standard form on their website which you, and anyone else, will be able to fill in and email to them, setting out your view on the various options they have set out. I can't promise they will agree with you, but if loads of the general public write in expressing concern they would be pretty stupid to ignore it given they are required to summarise and publish the responses they received. "we received 1.25 million responses from members of the public expressing strong views that RPI should stay the same, and one response from a mr g osborne suggesting we change it cos he would like it to be lower. We agree with georgie". They would be judicially reviewed quicker than a baby could throw a toy out of a pram.

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The government and bodies (independant or otherwise) do a LOT of consulting. There was consultations over high speed rail for instance. It doesn't mean asking everyones individual opinions

Here is a consultation summary for HS2.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/hs2-consultation-summary/

As you will note they received 55,000 responses, the vast majority of which (54,000) were received from the general public...so basically it does mean exactly what you say it does not - seeking everyone's individual opinion.

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

BTW, I highly doubt the word "consultation" means asking the nation. Happy to be proven wrong, but until that point, I'd suggest you are talking out of your rear to score cheap points for some unknown reason. As you are suggesting I do such a thing, I assume you could tell me how and where?

I guess you're happy now then.

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What's more interesting is the announcement that the ONS are looking to change RPI measures, which will lead to lower returns for many, suggesting they are looking to lower the level reported in RPI.

Will they engineer lower inflation? You can pretty much bet your bottom dollar! Appears they want it more in line with the favored CPI measure.

Its described to be particularly detrimental to those holding index linked investments or gilts.

The RPI has been overstated for decades due to the way clothing prices are measured (Google Carli Index for details or look out the excellent More or Less from a few months ago) so the idea that inflation rates are manipulated downwards is demonstrably wrong.

The effect on Gilts is interesting: there's over £30,000,000,000-worth of index linked Gilts which have a clause in the contract stating that if there is a material change in the RPI calculation the Gilts can be redeemed.

Regarding the ONS consultation, it is open to 'users' of the data: if changes in the RPI have a meaningful impact on you then you would be welcome to write to them. They're not interested in someone having a whinge however.

Fella

Rail Fares
Car Parking
Council Tax
Food
Energy
Petrol
House/Car/Pet Insurance
Telecoms
Water

Off the top of my head these are the things I spend money on & without a change of lifestyle are not optional (as opposed to say, buying a better TV or a newer sofa which might be nice but doesn't exactly constitute a lifestyle change). Frankly it'd be too depressing to sit here & work out exactly how much they actually increase each year but I know simply from direct debits that it's way way in excess of the laughable official rates. And I would hazard that most people are in the same boat.

IMO it's highly likely they'll do their best to engineer lower official inflation. Govenments have lots of form on this, after all the only reason we have two measures (a joke in itself) is to give them some flexibility to do so).

There are various ways they could do it too. IIUC (not an expert but this is my understanding) the US model works in a very dubious way, the gist being they treat equal spend as meaning no inflation. To give an example, if a family spends $x on steak then steak goes up so instead they spend the same amount on mincemeat, it's treated as if there was no inflation because their spend has not increased (even though obviously there was because they're getting less for their money).