Is this unreasonable???

shopaholicsan

Hi,
My daughter started a full time job in Sept 2006. We had a 2 week family holiday booked for Feb 2007 which they initially told her was fine, then upon return told her she was not entitled to be paid for all of it as she had not accrued enough holidays. She has since booked another week's holiday for her 21st birthday in July 2007 (they said this was ok).

She has just returned from 2 weeks off sick (only time) with a doctor's sick note. They paid basic SSP after first 4 days. The problem is she had a back to work interview and they told her that her time off (ie holidays) and sickness are going to affect her record and as she is only on a probationary period of employment. They are basically threatening that if she has any further time off during the probationary period (I think this is 1 year) she will be in trouble.

Is it me being biased as her Mum or are they being unreasonable?
I know it shouldn't affect how she is treated in work but she is a single parent who works really hard - she starts work at 7am every day and her son is only 1 so often gets broken nights sleep but is never late.

Any comments welcome thanks.

jennynoo

Hello, hopefully someone with some more knowledge will come along soon. All I can say is that probation usually lasts 6 months and during this 6 months it is easier for them to get rid of you. In my old job I had to accure enough holiday before I could take days off there was a calculation we had but I can't remember now.

jennynoo

Oh, also, before they can get rid of anyone they usually have to do three written warnings.

jennynoo

In my opinion they are just being a bit pushy and given time you will see that it was not really an issue. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will come along soon!

dawnybabes

You are entitled to paid holidays each year (off the ACAS site)

http://www.acas.co.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1140

How much paid holiday must a worker get?

Most workers - whether part-time or full-time - are entitled by law to four weeks' paid annual leave. Employees may have additional entitlement as part of their contract of employment,

A week's leave should allow workers to be away from work for a week - ie it should be the same amount of time as the working week. If a worker does a five-day week, he or she is entitled to 20 days leave. If he or she does a three-day week, the entitlement is 12 days leave.

Workers must give the employer notice that they want to take leave. Employers can set the times that workers take their leave, for example for a Christmas shutdown. If a worker's employment ends, he or she has a right to be paid for the leave time due and not taken.

So by rights she should have accrued half of her annual entitlement now ?

Bean_Counter

The first starting point should be her contract of employment. Look there to see what it says about taking time off, holidays etc. See when the holiday year is and work out if she has taken too many holidays.

If she has only had one day bout of sickness, they seem a little harsh. What might not be immediately obvious though is time she may have had off / leave early to look after child.

As far as I am aware, when she gets to the end of her probabtion period, then they can let her go if they want. There are some exception such as sex discrimination. They need to give her notice at the end of this period. If this then takes her over the one year employment period, then she is covered by employment law and the statutory grievance and dismissal rules apply. Look at the acas website or similar for all the details. What Jennynoo said about three written warnings is not true across the board, but maybe for her company.

Hope this help a bit.

Daisies

She should have her probation period stated on her contract - mine has always been 3 months. Did she get anything in writing about the holiday in January?

The sickness thing seems a bit harsh, especially as it's her only instance of being off sick.

NAR

shopaholicsan wrote: »

Is it me being biased as her Mum or are they being unreasonable?
I know it shouldn't affect how she is treated in work but she is a single parent who works really hard - she starts work at 7am every day and her son is only 1 so often gets broken nights sleep but is never late.
Any comments welcome thanks.

She needs to look carefully at all the terms of her contract of employment, which will only apply to her current employers. I know you asked for comments and people are giving their views on their employment conditions.
However it is only your daughter's conditions of service that are relevant here. (Hopefully she hasn't thrown them away)

shopaholicsan

Thanks for all the quick replies!!
Unfortunately she has been given no contract and is a bit vague about remembering details discussed at interview, if any. She has been given nothing in writing about holidays or anything. I will see if she wants to ask for her contract but feel she may think it will rock the boat even more just by asking.

Bean_Counter

Does she have a letter offering her employment when she started? In fact anything in writing?

Usual fall back is call CAB or ACAS.

honeypop

In her terms of employment (not necessarily a contract) which she would have been notified of when being offered the job, it would have stated how many days holiday she would get and how they would be accrued. The contract doesn’t have to be in writing, but you’re entitled to a written statement of the main terms within two months of starting work.

Say for example she had been allowed the statutory minimum which is 4 weeks holiday per year, she work full time so this would be 20 days. This would normally be accrued at a rate of 1.66 days per month (20 days divided by 12 months). Between starting in Sept and taking the holiday in Feb, she accrued 8 full days holiday which she was entitled to take, you say it was a 2week holiday so assuming that she needed 10 days off work, she would only be paid for the 8 days she had built up. By the time she goes on holiday in July, she will have accrued 16 full days holiday and already taken 8, she will have enough to cover her for the week (5 days) off and still have 3.5 left to take off.

(Also if she gets paid for having a bank holiday off, this can come out of this 20 days, she needs to be aware of this as there are 8 normally, which would only leave her with 12 days holiday to take, already had 10 and wants 5 more in July, she would be over her entitlement by 3 days)

I hope you don't think this example is patronising, but it shows how just because she may be entitled to 20 days (my example) it doesn't always mean they can be taken at any time, she needs to accrue them first - though some employers let them be taken any time after your first year in employment rather than build them up each year.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029788

Tried to do a link to the page where you can get more info on holiday entitlement, hope it works.

Also, wherever I have worked the employers have always taken into account the amount of time you have had off in probation period (holiday and sickness) when assessing your suitablility for the position and ability to do the job. I know sickness can not be avoided and holidays can already have been booked before starting the job, but some positions are worth making more of an effort for. I'm not saying your daughter should have, as they don't seem to be that friendly or worth making an effort for, this is just a general statement.

They ARE being unfair in that she doesn't have a written statement of employment, they need to provide this within 2 months, more info on this link:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027905