Company sick pay

Spoonhead88

Hello,

I'm needing a bit of advice, I've been off work for 4 weeks now with a ripped muslce in my lower back which means i can't lift/move objects. The first 7 days i self certied and i have had sick note from my doctor for the rest of the time i've been off. In the time i was off i went to see a friend who lives in a diffrent city. I broke down on the way and i was talking about it to friends on facebook (no one i work with has access to anything on my facebook) Today i get a call of someone i work with saying that a diffrent emoplyee found out about my trip and has told the department manger. He in turns has told the person who does the wages not to pay me for the last 2 weeks.

I have been with teh compnay coming up to 6 years this november and in my contract and employee handbook it says "After 5 years service i am entiled to 12 weeks full pay" I have spoken to my H.r Department and they say though i am entittled to the 12 weeks it is upto the mangers discretion. No where it my contract does it state this, The only place that comes close to saying anything like this is in the hand book:

"The first 3 working days lost in any period of sickness, even if SSP qualified, do not automatically qualify for Company Sick Pay but payments may be made at the Company’s discretion. This decision will be made by your Line Manager, Head of Function or Director.
The discretionary element is based on the outcome of the back to work interview and therefore based on nature of illness, attendance record, whether proper absence reporting was applied. The Company will ensure that a fair approach is taken to all individual cases by periodically reviewing Company Sick Pay paid within the first 3 days.
Sick Pay is calculated on the length of service on the first day of the absence and the payments shown above are the maximum in any rolling period of 52 weeks.
“Sick Pay” from the Company includes any element of Statutory Sick Pay which may be due.""

I just need to know if what is in the handbook is enough to allow my manger to do this?? If not what are my options??

Thank you for any help

mariefab

It appears that, in the part youv'e quoted from the handbook, the only area in which your line manager has the discrection to allow/disallow payment of company sick pay is in relation to the first 3 working days of a period of sick leave.

I suggest that you tell HR that ^ (in writing) asking for them to explain on what grounds they consider that your manager can authorise a deduction from your wages for the last 2 weeks.

Uncertain

On the face of it no, it is not.

I would read this as the "discretion" period being only the first three days.

I wonder if this is a throwback to the days when a doctor's certificate was required after three days rather than a week as present.

A lot of managers and even so called "HR Professionals" seem to think that all company sick pay is discretionary. It is not. It is perfectly possible for it to be a hard and fast contractual right (obviously assuming you comply with the terms and conditions). There is case law to support this.

My reading is that you have a right to the money, assuming you have complied with all the rules. To what extent you should pursue this however is another matter.

Spoonhead88

Hello,

Thanks for all our repilies, Yes i have followed all the rules to do with being off sick procdere. The duduction will be made from my pay on the 28/09/2012, I only know it going to happen because my superviosr (also a friend) phone me today to tell me. Should i make the grivence now or wait till after the pay is deducted ?


I have spoken with acas and they agree that the manger can't do it

mariefab

You can't make a grievance now because they haven't actually done anything yet. They've just told you of their intention to.

Get in touch now and tell them that, as far as you are aware, the only discretion that your employer has to make a deduction from your company sick pay is in relation to the first 3 working days of the sickness period and that your contract/handbook doesn't give them authority to deduct payment for the last 2 weeks.
Ask for a written response.

Do you know of any reason why this manager would have felt he could do this?
Is there any company policy etc. stating that employees on sick leave are not permitted to drive???

Spoonhead88

mariefab wrote: »

You can't make a grievance now because they haven't actually done anything yet. They've just told you of their intention to.

Get in touch now and tell them that, as far as you are aware, the only discretion that your employer has to make a deduction from your company sick pay is in relation to the first 3 working days of the sickness period and that your contract/handbook doesn't give them authority to deduct payment for the last 2 weeks.
Ask for a written response.

Do you know of any reason why this manager would have felt he could do this?
Is there any company policy etc. stating that employees on sick leave are not permitted to drive???

No, I've no reason why he felt he could do this. I have looked through all the paperwork(contract, handbook ) They is nothing stating any kind of can and can't do list for people who are on sick.

mariefab

I am just guessing here, the only thing I can think of is that the information that your department manager received from the employee who found out about your trip has led him to conclude that you were not unfit for work for the last 2 weeks.
Was the trip taken 2 weeks ago?

Have a look at what you put on facebook.
Does what you have written there suggest that you were not unfit for work?

Uncertain

There is an implied duty not to do anything that might extend the length of time you are off sick. There is no obligation, as such, to stay at home or go to bed.

However if you were off work with, say, a bad back that keeps getting worse and the employer found that you had spent most of the time landscaping the garden then they could argue that you are not using the time to get better! They may then justifiably be able to argue against paying sick pay even without a specific discretionary clause.

Spoonhead88

Thanks for the help everyone.

Im off with a ripped muscle in my back so i am not allow to lift or carry anything. The only thing that the person could of seen on my facebook is the fact that i ran out of pertrol. I have been off for 4 weeks and the trip was 1 day trip that happen 2 weeks ago.