is it fair to be treated like this by employer

dipsomaniac

have worked for the last six years for UPS (United Parcel Service NOT Un Paid Sick or Unhappy People Society) I am contracted to work 04:30 to 07:45 mon-fri but for the last year have been starting at 04:00 and told that from 04:00 to 04:30 is COMPULSORY overtime.

it is a very physical job and nearing the end of a very busy friday shift i felt my neck crack. i felt a bit of discomfort but thought the weekend would sort it out. I was wrong and spent the weekend in a lot of pain. My thoughts monday morning was that a bit of physical work would sort it out so made my way painfully into work. I immediately told my boss what had happened friday and managed to last 45 minutes before having to go home as the pain and weakness in my arm was too great. I visited gp and told my employer that i had to sign myself off for the first 7 days. my employer told me i wouldn't be paid as this was my fourth absence in a 12 month period. i have always disputed these absences and raised a grievence which was unsuccessful. the details of the three absences are as follows:

october 2011: broke down on the way to work. as phone in the office could not be heard in the distribution centre i called managers mobile and left a message. manager did not get the message as he had changed his mobile number and had not informed employees. classed as absence as not spoken to manager - unpaid

march 2012: two days sick with a virus. called in sick and spoke to a manager at 03:50. despite being contracted to start at 04:30 this was classed as absence and unpaid as i had not called in within 30 mins of start of overtime shift time of 04:00

august 2012: had to take my first dependants (have 2 children under 5) leave day. i contacted my employer the night before my shift to advice them i wouldn't be in the next day. this was classed as absence and unpaid as the person i spoke to was not a manager.

i received a formal disciplinery for 3 absences within a twelve month period.

i am currently in a lot of pain and don't know when i am going to return to work. i have never abused the system and can't believe that ups are refusing to pay me sick pay.

can anyone offer any advice or views on above

moremore

dipsomaniac wrote: »

have worked for the last six years for UPS (United Parcel Service NOT Un Paid Sick or Unhappy People Society) I am contracted to work 04:30 to 07:45 mon-fri but for the last year have been starting at 04:00 and told that from 04:00 to 04:30 is COMPULSORY overtime.

it is a very physical job and nearing the end of a very busy friday shift i felt my neck crack. i felt a bit of discomfort but thought the weekend would sort it out. I was wrong and spent the weekend in a lot of pain. My thoughts monday morning was that a bit of physical work would sort it out so made my way painfully into work. I immediately told my boss what had happened friday and managed to last 45 minutes before having to go home as the pain and weakness in my arm was too great. I visited gp and told my employer that i had to sign myself off for the first 7 days. my employer told me i wouldn't be paid as this was my fourth absence in a 12 month period. i have always disputed these absences and raised a grievence which was unsuccessful. the details of the three absences are as follows:

october 2011: broke down on the way to work. as phone in the office could not be heard in the distribution centre i called managers mobile and left a message. manager did not get the message as he had changed his mobile number and had not informed employees. classed as absence as not spoken to manager - unpaid

march 2012: two days sick with a virus. called in sick and spoke to a manager at 03:50. despite being contracted to start at 04:30 this was classed as absence and unpaid as i had not called in within 30 mins of start of overtime shift time of 04:00

august 2012: had to take my first dependants (have 2 children under 5) leave day. i contacted my employer the night before my shift to advice them i wouldn't be in the next day. this was classed as absence and unpaid as the person i spoke to was not a manager.

i received a formal disciplinery for 3 absences within a twelve month period.

i am currently in a lot of pain and don't know when i am going to return to work. i have never abused the system and can't believe that ups are refusing to pay me sick pay.

can anyone offer any advice or views on above

Do you get paid for the overtime, or is it unpaid.

Was the injury put in the company accident book?
When you say your grievance are not upheld then you should put in appeal and counter their finding of your grievance.

I would ask them to refer you to their OH and if they refuse you can self refer. If they do not agree with this get in contact with contact with Access to Work and they will make recommendations for you and for your employer to follow.

Hope it works out OK for you....

dipsomaniac

thanks for reply. o/t is paid. i reported injury monday morning to manager but had to leave before finding out if entered in accident book. am going to confirm tomorrow. will also ask about access to Occupational Health.

marybelle01

Access to Work are for disabilities - not a strained muscle or two, no matter how painful.

Whether you get paid sick pay (or contractual sick pay because you should get SSP ifyou qualify for it) is down to what your employers policy says. If they either don't pay sick pay, or it is discretionary, then you don't have any entitlement to it. It may not be "fair" but its legal - there's no right so anything other than SSP when sick.

As for the three absences, you may dispute that you have three absneces, but it does appear that you have three absences! "Absence" means "not in work", not "had a really good reason for not being in work". Again, it might not be "fair" but if their policy says that absence management procedures quick in after 3 absences in 12 moths, then that is the policy, and everyone gets treated the same. That said, I am not sure that they should have counted the final absence - i believe dependants leave should be treated differently, but that said the law on this is pretty unclear because it's a right to unpaid time off to make arrangements for childcare - not a right to time off to care for a child, so it's a bit of a grey area.

Unpaid overtime can be required contractually, and is only illegal if the rate of pay would take the wage below the national minimum wage.

Notmyrealname

dipsomaniac wrote: »

i received a formal disciplinery for 3 absences within a twelve month period.

i am currently in a lot of pain and don't know when i am going to return to work. i have never abused the system and can't believe that ups are refusing to pay me sick pay.

can anyone offer any advice or views on above

You had 3 absences. They're not disciplining you for going on sick without informing them, you're getting the disciplinary for going sick.

Have you actually had the disciplinary yet and a decision made? If not then they're merely going through the investigation process and you will be giving the chance to put across your side so may not get one yet.

I think you can challenge the March one. Your contract states a start time of 04:30. The fact they want you to do overtime from 04:00 doesn't alter that.

DCFC79

The absence for august is definitely an absence, should have spoken to a manager, what does your policy say about absences ? Does it say about speaking to a manager ?

dipsomaniac

Notmyrealname wrote: »

You had 3 absences. They're not disciplining you for going on sick without informing them, you're getting the disciplinary for going sick.

Have you actually had the disciplinary yet and a decision made? If not then they're merely going through the investigation process and you will be giving the chance to put across your side so may not get one yet.

I think you can challenge the March one. Your contract states a start time of 04:30. The fact they want you to do overtime from 04:00 doesn't alter that.

yep. had the deciplinary and appealled but decision stays. i challenged the march decision too but they will do anything not to pay. that is why people go into work with broken legs/arms as they can't afford to lose money. guess that is why they made $2billion profit last year

dipsomaniac

DCFC79 wrote: »

The absence for august is definitely an absence, should have spoken to a manager, what does your policy say about absences ? Does it say about speaking to a manager ?

yes, need to speak to manager. i should have asked if the person was a manager or person should have passed me to a manager. ultimately, my responsibility.

arcon5

Don't feel so hard done by, lots of people don't get paid when off work sick. Just speak to your local cab driver, electrician, plumber, business owner blah blah blah whom literally only get out what they put in.
This is why it's always a good idea to put some cash to one side for a rainy day

dipsomaniac

arcon5 wrote: »

Don't feel so hard done by, lots of people don't get paid when off work sick. Just speak to your local cab driver, electrician, plumber, business owner blah blah blah whom literally only get out what they put in.
This is why it's always a good idea to put some cash to one side for a rainy day

i have been self employed for the last 10 years so know all about only getting back what you put in. i took this part time job to take some of the pressure off and to have some security for my family.