Paralympics Medal Table

StevieJ

An interesting blog/article comparing the Para Olympic medal table with the other one.

But the Paralympics medals table tells a story all of its own. When we look at the list of achievements at this year’s Games, most of us are are secretly – if not overtly – judging the countries that don’t seem to be doing so well in comparison to their Olympic feats last month.
We reserve most scorn for our transatlantic pals, as the USA languishes some way down the medals table despite always giving China a run for their money in the Olympics. How’s that market-based healthcare system working out for you then, America?

http://blogs.metro.co.uk/olympics/the-paralympics-medal-table-a-k-a-how-caring-you-are-as-a-nation-index/

Loughton_Monkey

I have (almost) first hand experience of the American health system when I visited a lifelong friend in Florida for 5 weeks earlier this year.

Basically, he has total kidney failure, is on dialysis, and is "on the list" for a kidney transplant.

I could write a book on the whole subject, but the 'bottom line' seems to be that no-one 'owns' his problem other than himself (and his wife). The 'kidney doctor' has done his job by diagnosing the problem, putting him on dialysis, and putting him on the transplant list.

Eventually, dialysis causes heart/circulation problems. It is down to the individual to seek out a 'heart doctor' who then puts on blinkers and ignores that kidney problem and simply takes out a vein, and inserts a 'stent'. The fact that this causes his 'exclusion' from the dialysis transplant list is of no concern to this doctor.

Subsequent dizziness/instability problems require a 'head doctor' who simply prescribes 'mind drugs' to prevent dizziness.

The 'mind drugs' then cause hallucinations, which then require a 'brain doctor' who does nothing more than prescribe extra, different 'mind drugs'. Two weeks later [which is when we arrived], he was seeing 12" spiders climbing up the wall, and 'watching' an Indie500 race in his own front yard!.

.... Which then left him to go to a psychiatrist, the end product of which was two further 'mind drugs'.

... two weeks later he was in a 'hospice' where [thankfully] a combination of his own daughter, me, and a very junior nurse came to the conclusion that 5 mind drugs was not a 'good idea'.

Luckily, he is now 'on the mend' and off most of the drugs. But basically, the USA system is diametrically opposed to the UK system.

UK System:

You get a GP who's job it is to 'own' your problems, and will co-ordinate your care. Your care will be under the auspices of a local hospital [health trust] who will p1ss you off with delays, waiting, poor administration, deprivation of care, abysmal food in hospital....

USA System

When you are ill, you need to make your own decision as to whether your problem is heart, lungs, liver.... and choose an appropriate doctor. The doctor will then prescribe drugs and send you for the most rigorous (and expensive) MRI scans, Ultrasounds, ECG's..... before you finally realise, by luck, that your problem is 'hormones'. So you will go to a 'hormone doctor' who will again send you for the most expensive and rigorous tests.....

I absolutely hate both systems.

olly300

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Luckily, he is now 'on the mend' and off most of the drugs. But basically, the USA system is diametrically opposed to the UK system.

While I agree with you that the systems are diametrically opposed I don't agree with you that the problems in the UK are just with poor hospital care.

A bigger issue that I've come across myself, my relations with chronic conditions and my friends with serious conditions have met is the postcode and class lottery.

One of my friends' when she was working in hospitals noticed that when she was working in poorer areas due to the number of patients they had to discharge them to be looked after at home even if they weren't sure they should be, there as in the wealthier areas patients who could go home with absolutely no problems where often kept in slightly longer. They were instructed to do this by their consultant to prevent the patients' relatives putting in complaints to the hospital.

One big issue I've found in England regardless of where I've lived is the GP "gatekeeper problem". That is the refusal of GPs to refer you for tests or to a consultant for proper diagnosis until your condition is chronic enough to make it much harder to treat. I've suffered this myself and so have quite a few other people I know. What's worse in my area a GP "dumped" his elderly care home patients as they were costing the practice too much.

Oh and the people I know who have had back injuries have got excellent treatment in hospital and were aware of the nurses were cruel they were being cruel to be kind.

Loughton_Monkey

olly300 wrote: »

While I agree with you that the systems are diametrically opposed I don't agree with you that the problems in the UK are just with poor hospital care......

I didn't [or didn't mean to] imply that the UK problems were "just" care. So we probably agree. To be frank, I believe the UK system is completely broken. I have recently been through a spate of very major 'treatment' and can find very little to applaud. Your own experiences seem pretty similar. In my case, things that stand out are:

1. Diagnosis of my problem was an extremely lucky 'accident'. I visited the GP for a most routine and mundane matter. The crap GP happened to have a med student with him that day, and therefore did things 'by the book'. He said I was over 60 and therefore needed an MOT. He had bypassed plenty of other opportunities to send me for an MOT.

2. NHS 'standards' dictate I should have been 'treated' within 3 months. I was 'treated' in just over 7 months, but will go down in NHS books as 'within standard' due to the outrageous way they fiddle the statistics.

3. I am 99% certain that the 7 months would have been 12 if it were not for my own 'activity and assertiveness' in getting appointments. When (for example) a consultant 'does' biopsy operations every other Monday, if he can't fit you in on a specific Monday, and a bank holiday intervenes, it will be 4 weeks later.

4. For pre-op and follow-up consultant visits, ask yourself how you can be booked in at 10:00 a.m. [the first appointment of the day] and yet not be seen until 2:30 p.m.? I have never been seen within 2 hours of my appointment time.

Sadly, I come under the 'postcode lottery' of Whipps Cross. I strongly argue that this is one of the worst hospitals in UK. I was lucky enough, however, to have my operation done at UCL.

ruggedtoast

GP's will / are only allowed to diagnose via NICE mandated criteria. Ergo your disease has to fit in with their treatment rather than the other way around. Treatment always involves prescribing something manufactured by a drug company.

I dont think its just the UK though, my friend from Holland was telling me about his elderly mother. She drinks too much and is obese. Rather than telling her to start looking after herself her doctors have put her on a shopping list of drugs.

Its like the 'hole in my bucket song' as each drug causes another side effect that they then treat with another drug, which causes another side effect.

Interesting link though. I do think the UK is a pretty caring country when it comes to disabilities, it probably doesnt feel like that if you're disabled but compared to many places I've been it is.

A._Badger

ruggedtoast wrote: »

GP's will / are only allowed to diagnose via NICE mandated criteria. Ergo your disease has to fit in with their treatment rather than the other way around. Treatment always involves prescribing something manufactured by a drug company.

.

What would you prefer? Something concocted by hedge witches?

ruggedtoast

A._Badger wrote: »

What would you prefer? Something concocted by hedge witches?

Lets not bring your mum into this.

PaulF81

ruggedtoast wrote: »

GP's will / are only allowed to diagnose via NICE mandated criteria. Ergo your disease has to fit in with their treatment rather than the other way around. Treatment always involves prescribing something manufactured by a drug company.

I dont think its just the UK though, my friend from Holland was telling me about his elderly mother. She drinks too much and is obese. Rather than telling her to start looking after herself her doctors have put her on a shopping list of drugs.

Its like the 'hole in my bucket song' as each drug causes another side effect that they then treat with another drug, which causes another side effect.

Interesting link though. I do think the UK is a pretty caring country when it comes to disabilities, it probably doesnt feel like that if you're disabled but compared to many places I've been it is.

Far too much of the countries wealth is thrown at fixing problems for people who are no longer productive. cutoff at 65 for all but immediate life saving and palliative care would eliminate the deficit overnight.

will it happen? no, instead the countey will be bled dry extending life for very little extra time and in many cases provide no extra life expectancy.

vivatifosi

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

I absolutely hate both systems.

Me too, though for different reasons.

USA: a good friend who lives in the US (the same one that votes in the Republican primaries - different thread) has MS. Initially she had the best possible treatment, however the money in her insurance pot has now been used up, so she's gone from having world-beating treatment for the disease to back of the queue treatment. I think there needs to be a level of consistency throughout a person's treatment plan and ability to access healthcare should not be so reliant on one's ability to pay.

UK: where do I start? In the last six years, my mother, husband, SiL and cousin have had to use the local healthcare service as in patients.
My Mum had breast cancer, but because the breast cancer was closed for its summer holiday and they had to meet the two week treatment target, they put her in a mixed ward, with non-specialist nurses. She had both breasts removed so couldn't move either arm, but thought nothing of putting food in front of her and then taking it away when she didn't eat. The doctors discharged her earlier due to an outbreak of MRSA.

When my husband went into hospital to have a hernia fixed, he phoned me up in his scrubs and said "get my clothes, pick me up and get me out of here". He'd got to pre-med and heard doctors talking about removing his gall bladder, got up, told them to f* off and stood outside in his gown waiting to be picked up. They really were about to do the wrong operation. He did later have the op done, but at a totally different hospital who were horrified at what had happened.

My cousin and SiL have both just given birth and went into the local maternity ward. They were both treated apallingly, but so were the others in there. The pattern of what went wrong was almost identical in both cases, yet nobody was learning from it. My cousin was attached to a drip yet was still expected to get up and go to a buffet if she wanted breakfast. When we went to see SiL there was a very distressed and very young mum who had just given birth and didn't know how to where to get things to change her baby (like water from a tap and a bowl), the disinterested nurse just barked a few instructions and walked off, no showing where things were, no nothing.

I am very fearful of the NHS and dread having to go into hospital for something. I see good things from A&E, GPs and outpatient care, its the planned operations that I'm fearful of. The scary thing is this isn't about money, its about mismanagement.

PaulF81

the nhs is full of self entitled socialists. They should have sacked and re hired consultants on more than 1 1/2 times the prime ministers salary. If they were that good they would be raking it in the private sector.

StevieJ

PaulF81 wrote: »

the nhs is full of self entitled socialists. They should have sacked and re hired consultants on more than 1 1/2 times the prime ministers salary. If they were that good they would be raking it in the private sector.

There speaks a fellow 'overpaid' public sector worker, BTW have you retired yet? or are you not entitled to that privilege until your 30's:) Apologies if I have the wrong sockie.