Looking for admin jobs...advice?

ianpwilliams

Hi everyone, I'm 37 and I finished 6 years of education in June. I'm a very musical person, so I did a BTEC National Diploma in Music Technology (Triple distinction), a Foundation Degree in Audio and Music Production (1st), and then the third year of a BSc (Hons) degree in Music and Audio Production (1st).

Since the course ended, I've been able to find and apply for the occasional media job, but nothing yet. Which I kind of expected, because media work tends to be freelance more than 9-5.

So my backup job is admin work, because I enjoy working with computers, and I really think I would enjoy an admin job. Yes it would quite possibly be boring, but more importantly it would probably also be stress-free, which is what I need.

But despite having applied for a huge amount of admin jobs, I haven't had a single interview. I don't know if this is because:

1 - so many people apply for every job (some of my friends suspect that they probably just pick a random handful of applications before shortlisting, so that would make it a lottery straight away)

2 - I have media-related qualifications, and the employers think "well this isn't what he really wants to do", which is not necessarily true (I could quite happily pursue music as a hobby instead, and stick with an office job in admin, hopefully eventually progressing into management)

3 - I'm old(ish), and they might want someone young. Although my argument against that is that I would guess a young person wouldn't be looking for a career, but I certainly am

I used to work as a computer programmer/IT support technician/administrator many years ago (11 years ago), and my recent acamedic courses were very technical, and included administrative tasks and software such as Microsoft Office, which I also use in my personal life.

Whenever I apply for jobs, I list all the person specification requirements, and I give an example of how I fulfill each requirement. I was also advised by employability people that I should try using a CV which lists my person specification skills, e.g.

Communication and Customer Service

• I developed my communication skills as a computer programmer, communicating daily with company staff via telephone, email, and face-to-face, on location and at over 50 stores nationwide. I further developed these skills by attending and hosting meetings, delivering academic presentations, and working in teams on academic projects.

I'm not doing a 7-week PTLLS (Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector) course, in the hope that I might be able to give myself the option of teaching music technology in further education. But PTLLS might not be enough in itself.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to increase my chances of getting an admin job?

heretolearn_2

From an employers point of view, no, I wouldn't give you an interview either, sorry.

'Yes it would quite possibly be boring, but more importantly it would probably also be stress-free, which is what I need.'
For a start, you don't seem to understand what admin jobs these days involve. They may have their routines, but it's naive to think these jobs are stress-free. In fact, most admin jobs are quite stressful these days - it's no longer just sitting filing all day. Our admin people have tight deadlines and an awful lot of responsibilities, and they'd laugh their heads off if you tried to tell them their jobs were not stressful. I can't think of the last time I worked somewhere where the admin roles weren't really key, extremely busy, and everything relies on them.

ianpwilliams

Fair enough, although I was talking about a different kind of stress. I know there would always be deadlines to keep to, and I have no problem with that. I'm very good at keeping to deadlines in fact. But hey, I could always just be a dole scrounger instead and do everything I can to not find work.

westv

ianpwilliams wrote: »

so many people apply for every job

It's people like that which help to make job hunting that much more difficult for those that take more car when applying.

Ashles

ianpwilliams wrote: »

Fair enough, although I was talking about a different kind of stress. I know there would always be deadlines to keep to, and I have no problem with that.

What sort of stress are you referring to that other jobs have but admin doesn't?

Also, if you are thinking about possibly moving into management from admin then it takes a lot wider skillset than just the admin, and there would definitely be stress involved in management.

From your CV (and also from your post) I would probably get the impression that this job was only what you were doing until your main interest took off, and that you consider admin and management a back-up. Which is of course absolutely fine and similar to most other people, but the main thing (as you have identified yourself) is to minimise that impression.

Everything about the CV (and interview if possible) should be tailored towards how much you want the job you are applying for. Try and rewrite your experience as far as possible as applicable to the job you are applying for.
Try and play down your passion for a music career as much as possible, and emphasise the admin roles you have done.

Your age could even be a benefit - you could say that you have gained a variety of experience and have now decided where you want to apply it... doing [whatever that specific role/company is].

The one thing it wouldn't be a good idea to do is to imagine admin then management as an 'easy' alternative.

heretolearn_2

1 - so many people apply for every job (some of my friends suspect that they probably just pick a random handful of applications before shortlisting, so that would make it a lottery straight away) I'm afraid your friends are talking rubbish there, I don't know of any employers who do that. But it's true, we gets loads of applications for every job. However, 9/10ths of those are discounted within a few seconds, especially with admin jobs as people think it doesn't require any skills/experience so we get lots of very random people applying. Out of the other 1/10th, half of them knock themselves out by being unable to spell, having poor grammar, or being unable to string a coherent sentence together. So your problem is competing against the tiny number that are worth seeing. Don't worry about the majority that basically had no hope, it doesn't matter if 200 of them apply, they aren't your competition.

2 - I have media-related qualifications, and the employers think "well this isn't what he really wants to do", which is not necessarily true (I could quite happily pursue music as a hobby instead, and stick with an office job in admin, hopefully eventually progressing into management) I have to say this would be a big warning flag for me. I'm sorry but as an employer I'm not going to believe someone who's studied something for 6 years then tells me it's just a hobby. It's not like someone who's studied engineering/accountancy/whatever and found it's not for them. You still love music and would ideally want to work in that field. My suspicion would be that this is a stopgap job until you can find one in music. We have taken on people in the past with lovely tales as to why they want the job even though there are clear clues that maybe they don't really, and they have all left extremely quickly (sometimes in days, it happened to us only last week) when they were offered something more appropriate to them. So I'm very reluctant to believe anyone else. This is probably your key problem.

3 - I'm old(ish), and they might want someone young. Although my argument against that is that I would guess a young person wouldn't be looking for a career, but I certainly am. Actually we prefer someone a bit more mature as we find they have more general life experience that helps at work, and they often do want to find a role/firm they can settle down in and stay for some time. Of course, we don't discriminate against younger people, but for an admin role I really don't think being older is an issue for many employers. .

So...I think you need to look at how you can convince prospective employers you are serious about the role right back at the application stage, and make sure that your CV emphasises all the admin related skills and experience you have picked up. You are on the right lines with the extract about communication, but there are other things that would help. You need to draw out of your previous experience and your studies examples of organising events/meetings/travel/, any purchasing/negotiation experience, your IT skills in office software including examples of what you have done (for example setting up an Access database to manage customer relations, Excel to manage petty cash,) and so on...

what sort of work have you done before? Please don't think I'm trying to be completely negative about your chances. You come across as an intelligent person, you have great IT skills, and express yourself well in writing. That's half the battle for admin work.
Are you applying for entry level admin jobs? Without relevant experience, that's where you need to be looking. The calibre of candidates we have interviewed for higher level posts has been exceptional recently, with many years experience.

Also on your CV, make sure you are pointing out what you might think is obvious. Is your typing speed on there? You'd be amazed how many good-sounding candidates turn up with all sorts of IT qualifications who then sit there doing their practical IT test for us tapping away at a snails pace with 2 fingers. Even something like having a first aid or appointed person certificate is helpful and worth mentioning (and doing) to help you stand out a bit.

picnmix

Have you registered with any agencies to get some admin experience?

I'm sorry to say that I would not shortlist you, as I would read between the lines and think that you were looking for something to "fill a gap".

I think you need to get some hands-on experience if you are serious about getting an admin job, as suggested above join an agency, or do some volunteer work. Your age doesn't go against you, your past experience does.

ianpwilliams

When I said stress-free, I probably should have said "less stressful", which I imagined that an entry-level admin job would be, at least compared to freelance media work, because with freelance work you never know where the next job (or money) is coming from, but with an office job you at least (hopefully) have job security and a regular paycheck.

I always play down the music and media side of things when I apply for admin jobs, and because I have always had a huge interest in computers, I emphasize that side of things instead.

When I started doing the media courses, I naively thought that I would be able to find some kind of media-related job when I left college and/or university. I did w a work placement with the BBC, and I was on their books in the run-up to and during their big move to Salford. But obviously nothing came from that, and during the courses, I started to realize that I had probably made a mistake when choosing the subject, even though it was the subject best-suited to me.

That's why I've now focused myself on working with computers instead. I used to be a computer programmer, and I would have loved to have done that again. But the programming language was very obscure, so I would have to learn a whole new language, which would take a good year or two, and I'm a bit fatigued when it comes to education now (PTLLS is only 1 day per week for 7 weeks so that's now too bad). I want to work.

During my academia I made a point of choosing to lead teams of people and manage academic projects, to give myself skills organising, leading etc, so that combined with the programming, IT support etc gives me a huge amount of experience, albeit some more dated that others, although I believe it's all still relevant.

What annoys me is that I have this great 1st class honours degree where I did really well, and not only does it seem to be considered pretty worthless because it's media-based, but it also seems to be stopping me from getting a "normal" office job, which I would genuinely be happy doing.

ianpwilliams

picnmix wrote: »

Have you registered with any agencies to get some admin experience?

I'm sorry to say that I would not shortlist you, as I would read between the lines and think that you were looking for something to "fill a gap".

I think you need to get some hands-on experience if you are serious about getting an admin job, as suggested above join an agency, or do some volunteer work. Your age doesn't go against you, your past experience does.

Can you point me in the direction of agencies? I'm with job agencies like Reed, Totaljobs etc, but I don't know how "agency work" works.

And I would consider voluntary admin work if I could find some.

Ashles

ianpwilliams wrote: »

What annoys me is that I have this great 1st class honours degree where I did really well, and not only does it seem to be considered pretty worthless because it's media-based, but it also seems to be stopping me from getting a "normal" office job, which I would genuinely be happy doing.

It is unlikely to be stopping you from getting any jobs.
We have hired many people from varied backgrounds in our office and the role is exclusively PowerPoint, Word and Excel.
We have had people with music backgrounds and a Doctor of pure Maths. My personal background is in Experimental Psychology.

But any unrelated qualifications are irrelevant to us if they can demonstrate applicable experience.

In particular if the last 5 years are really relevant to the role and they can demonstrate they have done similar work, then we are not so worried about their career before that, particularly if their intro paragraph is convincing and well thought out in describing how they want to work here or how their experience is directly suitable.

Where are you based? If London then Office Angels, Devonshire, Williams Lea, Taylor Burlington etc are all agencies that have work.
They work that you go in, tell them what admin skills/packages you have and then they will probably give you a test. After that they try to fnd you temporary jobs, many of which can turn into full time jobs (mine did - I started as a temp and now head the international team doing dtp for the company I work for).

picnmix

ianpwilliams wrote: »

Can you point me in the direction of agencies? I'm with job agencies like Reed, Totaljobs etc, but I don't know how "agency work" works.

And I would consider voluntary admin work if I could find some.

I can't give you specific agencies, but if you have any large employers in your area, give them a ring and find out which agencies they use if any, and contact the local NHS hospital and find out the same, then register with those agencies.

Ring all the local agencies and make appointments to go and see them, they should help you with your CV - tailored to admin roles. You can be registered with as many as you like, it should give you more of a chance of getting an assignment as certain companies always use the same agencies. They should then put your forward for the positions that become available. I work in the NHS and tend to like to meet people before offering them the assignment, I always go for the confident, enthusiastic and friendly person who attends, someone who will fit in well with a team of people. Hope this helps you, I think you just need to get a bit of recent work place experience behind you.