recycled something at work now facing disciplinary for theft!

Savvy_Sue

fluffy*giraffe* wrote: »

anamenottaken he has a letter from the people who removed the items.

More to the point, any 'recycling' we do for work has to be paid for, as in we pay a contractor to remove and recycle what we no longer need!

I'm surprised no-one has yet asked "Is he in a union?" If he is, I'd get in touch with them pronto: if your husband was not responsible for putting items in the skip but only for arranging collection then this seems bizarre. Have there been any other issues with this manager?

Savvy_Sue

Forgot to add, are they following a correct process? What does the letter he's presumably had say?

fluffy*giraffe*

hi sue no he is not in a union as they say they don't recognise them!

he has had no formal letter from work it has all been informal until next week when the big managers are in from holiday.

the letter is from the people who recycled the goods to say he did not gain from it.

the manager is fairly new and has implemented some of OH ideas as her own and i think she feels threatened.

wantsajob, that sounds like a good idea lol.

thanks for all the replies

oh and also forgot to add the manager told him they were going to ring me to tell me he had been sacked and how would he feel about that!

LittleVoice

fluffy*giraffe* wrote: »

he is not in a union as they say they don't recognise them!

Whether someone is a member of a union does not depend on whether an employer "recognises" one.

The law says anyone can join.

Unions represent their members and that includes a right to accompany them at disciplinary meetings with employers, however much the employer may not want them there.

blossomhill_2

fluffy*giraffe* wrote: »

hello and hope i am in the right place

my OH is in this situation at the moment, what can we expect?

thanks in advance

Hi fg

This is what your OH can expect LINK
But by the sound of it the company won't get it right - he should let them get it wrong!
If they get it wrong it won't matter what the circumstances were, he will have a case against them

How long has he been with them?

He is still in a position of trust because he hasn't been disciplined for anything (even if they may intend to do so)

My previous employer laid out what they expected from employees re recycling/disposal of waste/not accepting waste on behalf of/from contractors on the back of the car pass - and forgot that not everyone had a car/pass

fluffy*giraffe*

just read through the link and it says this

While suspended, you may be told not to talk to other employees, customers and/or suppliers. If this stops you defending yourself, it may be grounds for appeal. It is up to you whether you listen to this but your employer may take further disciplinary action if you don't.

does this rule also apply after the informal meeting but before formal action has been decided? his manager has told him he is not allowed to talk to anyone about it but needs to as this started the day he came back from a 2 week holiday and the manager has set things moving before he came back, just to add the manager phoned him whilst we were on holiday over the missing items.

blossomhill_2

fluffy*giraffe* wrote: »

just read through the link and it says this

While suspended, you may be told not to talk to other employees, customers and/or suppliers. If this stops you defending yourself, it may be grounds for appeal. It is up to you whether you listen to this but your employer may take further disciplinary action if you don't.

does this rule also apply after the informal meeting but before formal action has been decided? his manager has told him he is not allowed to talk to anyone about it but needs to as this started the day he came back from a 2 week holiday and the manager has set things moving before he came back, just to add the manager phoned him whilst we were on holiday over the missing items.

It seems a bit of a muddle between formal and informal, that's why I think they will get it wrong

The DirectGov info says "once suspended"

The manager "set things in motion" at the point they discovered the problem and spoke to OH (informal?) I don't think there has been a meeting has there?

The main thing that jumps out from your original post is the phrase "all metal removed as has been the practice for many years" - if OH has any evidence that this was "custom and practice" and the employer can't produce any counter-evidence to show that the practice has been overtaken, this will probably be his best defence - so hang onto that evidence, storing it outside the workplace in case he is denied access.

He shouldn't rely too heavily on the letter from contractor saying no money changed hands - in some cases a contractor would be in collusion with an employee and so would say that, so it's not worth a lot as it will probably be viewed cynically

The threat that they would ring his OH and say he had been sacked sounds like harassment, and may be an indicator that he has not been given fair treatment, as it sounds like they have decided the outcome before hearing his side (as may the contractor being told the potential outcome when it is a staff matter and so none of their business)

baldelectrician

He can have a union rep or somoene of similar standing there at the disciplinary- do you have home legal cover; this may cover a lawyer or trained person?

Don't give too much away to the employer- they have to provide him with details of all evidence against him (including copies of signed statements) 48 hours prior to any disciplinary meeting.
Wait and see what happens

I agree with blossomhill- there appears to be 'custom and practise' here.

One other point- I would ask for a FULL copy of the companies disciplinary and greivance procedure. Tell them they can send you a pdf if the photocopying is too costly

fluffy*giraffe*

I think the most annoying part to this is that the manager in question told an outside contractor before my OH of there intention to follow the discipline route, Has this breached my OH confidentiality with regards to passing on private and confidential information to somebody not even part of the company?

Savvy_Sue

baldelectrician wrote: »

He can have a union rep or somoene of similar standing there at the disciplinary- do you have home legal cover; this may cover a lawyer or trained person?

Not unless the firm's D&G policy says so: he has the right to be accompanied by a colleague or a TU official, but there is no right to have a lawyer or other trained person present.

baldelectrician wrote: »

Don't give too much away to the employer- they have to provide him with details of all evidence against him (including copies of signed statements) 48 hours prior to any disciplinary meeting.

At the moment, they might be regarding this as an investigation, in which case they don't have to give him anything in advance, because the purpose of an investigation meeting is to find out what happened. Plus I don't think 48 hours is a set time: timings have to be reasonable for a disciplinary.

baldelectrician wrote: »

One other point- I would ask for a FULL copy of the companies disciplinary and greivance procedure. Tell them they can send you a pdf if the photocopying is too costly

Very good idea. I suspect they are making it up as they go along: if they realise this their best solution would be to back off ... at which point the OP's husband could raise a grievance, although it won't win him any friends!

Have we asked: have there been issues with this manager in the past?