Stick situation regarding long term sick & buying a house/keeping up with payments

BarrelScraper

Have a bit of a tricky situation here. If it would be better in the house buying forum then could a mod please move the thread.

Some of you may be aware about my 'sick leave' record with my current employer, some of you may not & some of you may have forgotten. Basically by my own admission it is poor & that's putting it nicely. I've been there just shy of 10 years full time. For the first 3-4 years my record was excellent. Since 2006, i've had 2.5 month with work stress. After that it has been injury after injury. My job is very manual - so if i have a major lower body injury (legs for example) then it renders me unable to do my job. If i've got a major upper body injury (chest or arms for example) i'm again rendered unable to do my job. If i was sitting at a desk all day then the one that had me off work the longest (6 months leg injury) wouldn't have applied as i could've still done my job.

Basically after the stress, i had 6 months with a complicated leg injury running from back of 2007 into mid 2008. Later that year i cracked my ribs which was 1 week. In early 2009 i think it was i had a further 3 months as the docs tried to rectify the problem with my leg which took longer than we thought.

I then thought i was on the up-&-up as i was able to put over 12 months solid in without a single day off, before i tore my hamstring & required 2 weeks in 2010 i think it was. Or it might've been 2011 actually, which sounds about right as i'm sure i had 0 days sick in 2010.
Back of 2011 i had a further 2 weeks due to bereavement before having 13 weeks earlier this year recovering from surgery. It was supposed to only be 6 weeks, but there were a lot of post-op complications which added an additional 7 weeks.

I have had it put to me (by work) that i am basically doing all this on purpose. To this i reply:
* who in their right mind would cause these injuries to themselves JUST to have time off work? It is an insane accusation. Do you think i like breaking my leg? Like tearing my hamstring? Cracking my ribs? Requiring operations on a knee which has worn quite badly? NO!!
* Also, i only get SSP during this time. This has cost me a LOT of money. I understand it has cost the company also, but think a little before throwing wild accusations - i don't enjoy losing money & i don't enjoy having these problems. I would MUCH rather be at work earning!!!!

Looking at it from the company's POV, I understand that this has caused inconvenience to the company. However, continuing to look at it from the companies POV, my periods of sick leave have always (with the exception of 2 of the shorter spells) come at the quietest period of the year when they would've been putting staff on 'short time'. I have worked these periods myself when OTHERS have been off & we're pretty much LOOKING for work to keep us busy.


Basically i am currently living at home & we're looking at buying our first house next year.

I have recently torn "something" in my shoulder. I don't know how, or when. It has just progressed from an occasional niggle to a constant problem. I am scheduled to see the physio which should help identify the problem better.

Through online research, i have found that it is likely 1 of 2 tears that i have, or perhaps both.

Due to my last bout of surgery, i do NOT want surgery again, but looking into if this is left untreated & worst case scenario is i will lose my arm. It has already progressed from a slight niggle once or twice in the day, to a constant problem, breaking up my sleep, stopping me from doing various things (can't reach for things, struggle itching the 'other side' of the body for e.g., or scratching my back for e.g.).
Surgery recovery looks like it takes 6 months.

NOTE: i'll say again, i do not want surgery & would only have it if it was on a STRONG recommendation from the doc/physio (as in i would regret it big time if i didn't have it).



So after all the background & the waffling, i get to the point - i really think that my employer would sack me if i went through with this operation due to the 6 month recovery time.

I don't want to lose my job because obviously i need it to buy the house (or if we've bought it already - run the house). So i'm a little stuck.

It's come at a terrible time really. Have any of you been in such a situation? What did you do? Is there any such protection (either job or house wise) that i could have? Anything to cover bills for example if i do get laid off?

I know it's early days, but nobody knows your body like yourself & i'm sure that PT wont help the problem as it's really quite painful. I don't want to go for surgery with all the medical risks etc, but i don't want to be restricted like i currently am. I also don't want to lose the job & be unable to buy the house or have the house taken from us.

All seems like 1 thing after another. Soon as i'm past 1 injury, another is round the corner & none of them ever seem to be minor. So depressing!!!! Apologies for waffling.

marybelle01

I don't know if it is the same thing but it sounds like it. A colleague has had the same problems about ten years ago in her 20's, but was living abroad at the time where they didn't recommend surgery - if I recall they used physiotherapy and steroid injections (I think that's what she said anyway - the point is they didn't recommend surgery). She is now in constant pain, has little mobility in her shoulder, and the doctors here now tell her the damage is done and there is no chance that surgery will correct the problem. She expects to lose the use of her arm and shoulder within the next decade (so she will be in her mid-40's - not so old) - it is now only a matter of time and any teratement at best delays the inevitable.

Don't muck about with your health because once gone you don't get it back. If she'd known about this surgery back then she would have had it like a shot - and still would if there was even a remote chance of improvement.

Are you just exceedingly unlucky, or has anyone investigated whether there is an underlying reason why you break to easily? If it's the latter you might get some protection as a disabled person - although that won't stop them from sacking you if they really want to, but it might make them think twice.

BarrelScraper

Thanks for taking the time to read - i know i waffled a lot there.

I think i'm just unlucky. I've always been known as being injury prone - even at school. I don't really know why it happens.
If i throw it riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight back i guess it all started late primary school. I just jumped down a banking & twisted my ankle. I'd done it many times before, but this time was unlucky.
FFWD to early secondary school & i jump off a school chair, go over on the same ankle & break it. I'd taken jumps bigger than this as a kid & been ok ---- unlucky.
The following year i need an operation on a dislocated elbow. Don't know how i did it. I went for an X-ray & got told i was ok. Return 2 years later & the x-ray from before is reviewed & it shows i had actually dislocated it, but as 2yrs had passed, it had calcified, hence the operation requirement - unlucky.
Then i was constantly going over on my ankles, but no more sprains or breaks.

Leave school & playing football some lad jumps down on my ankle area. This caused all the problems with my leg - specialists up & down the country couldn't tell what the problem was, but i struggled walking properly & putting any force through the ankle. It turned out to be a stress fracture, but it took nearly 2 years to get an answer....unlucky.
Football again was the cause of my cracked ribs - some tank ran into my chest. Unlucky.

I was stretching to my limits when my hamstring went on me. I could feel it rip. Unlucky.

I've broken both my big toes. One of them was certainly through football but i can't remember the other one. Just unlucky.

I tore the cartilage in my left knee by lifting a 40kg sack at work. MY knee gave way. Unlucky as i'd lifted this weight so many times over the years.

My right knee went from under me when taking approx a 3ft jump. I've jumped double that & more in the past, but this time my knee didn't like it. The end result was scraping of the kneecap & plica membrane removed. Again, unlucky.

I don't know what caused the problem with my shoulder. I was shoulder pressing at the gym, but my shoulder felt fine during & after. A few days later i lifted a 25kg sack at work & felt a twinge. I don't know what the cause was. Unlucky once again as i'd done shoulder presses so many times before & lifted 25kg so many times before also.


I get likened to Samuel L Jackson out of Unbreakable. I look back & think why play football (i don't any more), why take that jump, why lift that weight, but then i'm no future teller.

It's just so incredibly depressing. Unlike the accusation levelled at me from work, i DON'T do this on purpose. Just when i'm past one injury & think this is is, stay injury free, i get hit with another. My partner can't work it out as i'm actually a really careful type of person (e.g. my mum has a habit of leaving the hoover at the top of the stairs when cleaning. I go nuts & start moving things to make it safe).


I've had surgery three times. The elbow & left knee were brilliant.
The most recent was my right knee & there were so many complications with it. Poor recovery & blood clots. I've lost feeling down one side of the knee which is now likely permanent.
Due to all the complications i had, i'm extremely hesitant to have surgery of any description again. I appreciate your story about your colleague & understand this may also happen to me (though i need to see a physio & have some sort of scan first - i'm holding out for an MRI), but truth be told, i'm scared about going under the knife after what happened with my last operation (& also the fact i don't want to lose my job - as obviously we need money to live).

It's on a par with when they couldn't diagnose the issue with my leg even 18 months in - it gets so incredibly frustrating that it gets you to the point of tears as there's little to nothing you can do about it.



<EDIT>: Before it's mentioned, i'm well aware i may not even require an operation. I've just spent a lot of the past week researching the pain, the injury, the symptoms, tests for various tears (which have come back both positive & negative for various tests on rotator cuff & glenoid labrium tears), the likliehood of surgery requirement, how if you can't do certain activities relates to whether your tear is minor or more severe etc etc etc. I would rather look into the possibilities now & be PREPARED for the worst, than to have it dumped on me & be hit for 6 by putting my head in the sane right now.

dawyldthing

if i was you i'd be looking into a non-lifting job as its your job that will be putting strain on your body hence causing half these injuries (even if indirectly)

CFC

To answer your question, there is no protection you could get because you already have the health problem. Also, if work sacked you, the insurance you can get for mortgage payments would not cover it - it doesn't cover dismissal.

Basically - if you rent and get sacked you're ok through the benefit system. If you're buying, you're in doggy doo doo as you're all on your own.
God bless the government

Dunroamin

I think that it's a shame that with your health record, you took 2 weeks off for a bereavement, when many places only allow a couple of days, even for a parent.

I'm surprised that, with all these problems, you haven't tried to get a less physically demanding job.

bossymoo

Might be worth considering a change? With all those injuries you must have weak spots, something less physical might be more sustainable? Even if they didn't sack you, you are still looking at bouts of ssp if your record continues. Doesn't pay mortgages. I think you need to get your health in order before committing to 25yrs.

BarrelScraper

dawyldthing wrote: »

if i was you i'd be looking into a non-lifting job as its your job that will be putting strain on your body hence causing half these injuries (even if indirectly)

I know what you're saying, but the funny/surprising thing is that my job isn't actually aggravating my shoulder, which is also why i would be hesitant for an operation.

I have changed the way i do things: i don't stretch for the back seat on the car, i get out & open the rear doors. I don't open big doors at work pushing with my right shoulder, i now lead with my left, which is harder as i'm weak with my left, being a 100% righty, but it's doable. I tuck my shoulder in when lifting so my arm isn't stretched. I can handle 25kg weights at waist height without issue. I can mount machinery as i hoist myself with my left instead of my right.

I would've thought the injury would've interfered with work a lot, but it surprisingly hasn't. It's outside of work & end of the day/whilst sleeping.

CFC wrote: »

To answer your question, there is no protection you could get because you already have the health problem. Also, if work sacked you, the insurance you can get for mortgage payments would not cover it - it doesn't cover dismissal.

Basically - if you rent and get sacked you're ok through the benefit system. If you're buying, you're in doggy doo doo as you're all on your own.
God bless the government

Thanks for the feedback, even though it wasn't what i was wanting to hear lol.

We would be looking at buying, yes, as i don't want to be paying a house off into retirement. Buying was always the plan.


Out of interest, what payment would i be due if work released me due to being unable to do my job / didn't give me the chance to recover (as said, it's a 6 month recovery timeframe according to much googling).?

Would it JUST be accrued holiday pay, nothing more, or would i be entitled to more?
And then would it be jobseekers *shudder* or anything other than/in addition to that?

Dunroamin wrote: »

I think that it's a shame that with your health record, you took 2 weeks off for a bereavement, when many places only allow a couple of days, even for a parent.

I'm surprised that, with all these problems, you haven't tried to get a less physically demanding job.

I'm sorry, but why is it a shame?

I understand people react differently to people they are close to who die. This was a parent & one i was really close to - again i understand i'm no different to millions of others on that one. It came suddenly, out of the blue - again i understand others have had to deal with this also.
I can honestly say i didn't 'drag it out' at all. I didn't want to take the time off work as i was trying to show the company i could put a long run together without sickness, but there is no way at all i could've performed well at work during the 2 weeks. My work would've suffered & then that impacts on my department & that has a knock on effect to 2 other departments & also the customer base. At the end of 2 weeks i felt i was ok enough to concentrate on work, so returned & also put in a note thanking the company for being so understanding & giving me time.

I understand some places only get a couple of days & some people only take a couple of days. I remember my dad telling me he never took any time for his parents dying, other than the time for the funeral - he was back at work before & after the funeral, but i'd have been a mess if i had gone back after only 2 days.

As for the replacement job, i'll reply to that with the next quote...

bossymoo wrote: »

Might be worth considering a change? With all those injuries you must have weak spots, something less physical might be more sustainable? Even if they didn't sack you, you are still looking at bouts of ssp if your record continues. Doesn't pay mortgages. I think you need to get your health in order before committing to 25yrs.

Tbh, the plan before this injury was to get the house next year & then start looking for a change.

I don't/didn't want to change now, for the simple reason being where we end up buying (haven't decided on area yet), could make it very costly getting to work. I want to be settled with the house & know what area i'm coming from & such, so that was the plan to begin actively looking for alternative employment next year.

The physical side of the job has never bothered me. I don't mind it. The only thing that does bother me really is never knowing what time you're going to finish. I finished at 6:30pm recently, but even at 6:00pm i didn't know what time i was going to finish for example - & that applies EVERY day).

I would average approx 55hrs per week, roughly, without getting specific & i would get £18k-£19k pa. Take away the overtime & i would be about £14k-£14.5k, however if i was to opt out of the 48hr working week, i know for sure i would be squeezed out of the company as i've seen them do it to someone else (they don't have to guarantee 40hrs per week, so they dropped this person down to 10 & what can you afford on 10hrs per week?!).

I know i'm not on a great pay, but i don't want to drop too much. Getting more would require either 1) becoming lucky or 2) becoming qualified. Becoming qualified would likely mean having to leave my job to go on a course - which then cuts the income massively & with so many applying for any position going (we had over 100 applicants within a week for a toilet cleaner position), there's a good chance i'd not get a position at the end of it.
I know on the positive side, there's a chance i will, but when you need to keep up with your house payments, question is do you risk it?! & i'm naturally a cautious person.



Anyway, thanks to all who've replied.

Mands

BarrelScraper wrote: »

It's just so incredibly depressing. Unlike the accusation levelled at me from work, i DON'T do this on purpose. Just when i'm past one injury & think this is is, stay injury free, i get hit with another. My partner can't work it out as i'm actually a really careful type of person (e.g. my mum has a habit of leaving the hoover at the top of the stairs when cleaning. I go nuts & start moving things to make it safe).

How tall are you? What's your build in relation to your height? Are you clumsy? How many dislocations have you had?

Judith_W

Unfortunately your work can dismiss you on capability grounds - that you are not capable of performing your role for 6 months, and will just pay you holiday, salary owing, then you would probably go onto JSA.

With your medical record and pending investigation, you would not get any insurance to cover you whilst you are off to cover the mortgage.

I strongly recommend you look for another less physical job, and PS it is now illegal for anyone to ask about your sickness record before employing you.

J

marybelle01

Judith_W wrote: »

PS it is now illegal for anyone to ask about your sickness record before employing you.

No it isn't. They can't ask before making an offer, although I would suggest that refusing to answer such a question would be unwise since (a) they would take that as an answer and (b) only a person with a dsiability could take action on these grounds, and the OP says they haven't got one. But they can ask once an offer has been made and before it is confirmed, and large amounts of sick leave are legitimate grounds to refuse to confirm the offer.