Working Time Directive - Opt back in question.

desperation_2

Hi everyone,

I wonder if you may be able to answer a query for me please?

I decided (whether rightly or wrongly) to 'Opt Out' of the working time directive.

I have since decided that I wish to opt 'back in'.

On the original Opt Out form, there was nothing specified as to what length of period was required should an employee wish to opt back in.

When I looked at the Opt Back In form it states that the length of time required is 3 months (which I am aware is the maximum).

Am I right in thinking that as this was not made clear on the Opt Out form that the minimum required and legal is 7 days, or has the employer met their requirement to advise by informing on the opt Back in form?

Hope the above makes sense and I appreciate your responses.

getmore4less

Opting out only applies to the 48hr week all other section still apply.


You need to have agreed a longer than 7 days notice in writing.

so is it part of any contract including handbooks etc.

If not on the optout form what/where the notice is I think 7days min applies.

Notmyrealname

desperation wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that as this was not made clear on the Opt Out form that the minimum required and legal is 7 days, or has the employer met their requirement to advise by informing on the opt Back in form?

The opt in period is what the employer has stated up to the legal maximum of 3 months.

They have met their requirements - the fact that you didn't bother to read it properly doesn't change that.

desperation_2

Thank you both for your replies:

To clarify, yes I am aware that it only applies to the 48hr week and that all other aspects of the directive apply.

It is not mentioned/referred to in any T&C's/Contract/Handbook etc, it is dealt with as a seperate entity so to speak.

With regards to not reading the form correctly, I need to specify that there are 2 separate forms.

On the 'Opt Out' form no mention of the period required if you choose to opt back in is mentioned.

it is only mentioned on the 'Opt Back In' form, hence my original question, as to not being notified when I chose to 'Opt Out'.
As I was not notified or 'agreed' to the period, does the minimum 7 days notice apply in this instance.

Many Thanks

getmore4less

desperation wrote: »

With regards to not reading the form correctly, I need to specify that there are 2 separate forms.

On the 'Opt Out' form no mention of the period required if you choose to opt back in is mentioned.

it is only mentioned on the 'Opt Back In' form, hence my original question, as to not being notified when I chose to 'Opt Out'.
As I was not notified or 'agreed' to the period, does the minimum 7 days notice apply in this instance.

Many Thanks

Does the opt out form say you have to use the opt in form?
was an opt in form included with the opt out form?
That could be a sneeky way to inform you of the opt in notice period.



if not ignore the form and inform in writing with 1 weeks notice.

DVardysShadow

As anything beyond 48 hours is bound to be overtime, I would be of a mind not to argue over whether it is 3 months or 7 days notice and just cap my hours at 48 - or 49 to make a point.. As I see it opting out of the WTD is not the same as contracting to work over the 48 hours - it is just releasing the employer from monitoring whether you are going over the 48

desperation_2

Thank you getmore4less,

there is no mention on the 'opt out' form of the 'opt in' form, nor was it included, I happened to come across the form on the company 'Intranet', which prompted me to think and ask the question.

DvardysShadow -overtime....what's that? we do not get paid overtime, it is expected for you to work additional hours to support the business, I get paid for working 40 hours (salaried) regardless of the hours worked.

As for monitoring hours, the company does not record our hours worked as I am in a 'managerial' position. I log the hours for my staff on the companies payroll system, but I am not required to log mine nor is any other manager in the company. (and that leads to a whole new set of questions, however I am digressing)

Thank you both, I will go with giving a weeks notice and see how it goes!

DVardysShadow

desperation wrote: »

Thank you getmore4less,

there is no mention on the 'opt out' form of the 'opt in' form, nor was it included, I happened to come across the form on the company 'Intranet', which prompted me to think and ask the question.

DvardysShadow -overtime....what's that? we do not get paid overtime, it is expected for you to work additional hours to support the business, I get paid for working 40 hours (salaried) regardless of the hours worked.

As for monitoring hours, the company does not record our hours worked as I am in a 'managerial' position. I log the hours for my staff on the companies payroll system, but I am not required to log mine nor is any other manager in the company. (and that leads to a whole new set of questions, however I am digressing)

Thank you both, I will go with giving a weeks notice and see how it goes!

Paid or unpaid, if it is over your contracted hours, it is overtime.

As I see it, opt out or opt in makes not a lot of difference. If you want to work no more than 48 hours, you just don't work it, never mind the opt in form. About the only difference the form makes is that currently they don't need to monitor the hours you work. By opting in, you will create an obligation on them to monitor your hours and to stop you going over the 48.

The more I think about this, the more I think that if you can keep your hours down to your satisfaction you don't need to bother with the form.

anamenottaken

DVardysShadow wrote: »

By opting in, you will create an obligation on them to monitor your hours and to stop you going over the 48.

Even when not opted out, employees can still be required to work more than 48 hours in a week as long as the average over 17 weeks (or however long they have been employed if less) is not more than 48.

anamenottaken

If you have signed an opt out form, the employer can require you to work extra hours in accordance with your contract. That is, if your contract includes having to work additional hours to meet the needs of the business you are contractually required to work those additional hours.

getmore4less

desperation wrote: »

Thank you getmore4less,

there is no mention on the 'opt out' form of the 'opt in' form, nor was it included, I happened to come across the form on the company 'Intranet', which prompted me to think and ask the question.

DvardysShadow -overtime....what's that? we do not get paid overtime, it is expected for you to work additional hours to support the business, I get paid for working 40 hours (salaried) regardless of the hours worked.

As for monitoring hours, the company does not record our hours worked as I am in a 'managerial' position. I log the hours for my staff on the companies payroll system, but I am not required to log mine nor is any other manager in the company. (and that leads to a whole new set of questions, however I am digressing)

Thank you both, I will go with giving a weeks notice and see how it goes!

What are you hopeing to achieve by opting back in?

You need to manage your workload and expectations if excesive hours are continuous problem.

Trying to force the company with the WTD is not likely to be in your best interest in a salaried managerial position.

Do however look at total hours in relation to National minimum wage if in a relatively low paid managerial position.