MSE News: Santander to raise mortgage SVR in blow to borrowers

laptop80

WibbleSnarf wrote: »

About time more of this started to happen. Hopefully it will help get house prices back down to a sensible level and hopefully the banks will pass on some of this interest rate increase to savers who have been saving for a deposit for a house and who are seeing their savings eroded by inflation with every passing day. Looking forward to Nationwide and the other big players following suit in the next few days.

Anyone who has been reckless and borrowed beyond their means at a time of historically unprecedented interest rates and who hasn't budgeted for a return to historically 'normal' interest rates deserves little sympathy.

Well you're a bundle of sunshine, aren't you. Not everyone affected by increases to mortgages rates has been reckless and borrowed beyond their means, so your glee is both unwelcome and misplaced.

And if you genuinely think that banks are keen to pass the money they raise from this on to savers then you have my sympathy.

ILW

laptop80 wrote: »

Well you're a bundle of sunshine, aren't you. Not everyone affected by increases to mortgages rates has been reckless and borrowed beyond their means, so your glee is both unwelcome and misplaced.

And if you genuinely think that banks are keen to pass the money they raise from this on to savers then you have my sympathy.

If you are struggling with 5% you obviously have been reckless and borrowed beyond your means.

laptop80

ILW wrote: »

If you are struggling with 5% you obviously have been reckless and borrowed beyond your means.

Forgetting the reality that people's situations can and do change, who said anything about struggling? Even borrowers who can afford it aren't exactly going to welcome the increases to their outgoings. Schadenfreude is an unpleasant trait.

WibbleSnarf

Schadenfreude may very well be an unpleasant trait but all of the 'homeowners' were quite happy to indulge in it when house prices were rocketing out of reach of the younger generation.

I also don't 'think' that banks are keen to pass on the interest rate improvements to savers but that doesn't stop me hoping that some of it might filter through.

Millions of people the country over 'made' a fortune during the noughties by virtue of nothing more than having a mortgage. Someone has to pay for that. All I'm hoping for is that those who saw their houses increase in 'value', sometimes at a rate higher than they were earning in their salaries, end up paying for that increase themselves. I think it's utterly immoral to expect the younger generation to pay exorbitant prices for a place to live just because they happened to be born in the wrong decade while those born 15-20 years earlier are sitting pretty.

laptop80

WibbleSnarf wrote: »

Schadenfreude may very well be an unpleasant trait but all of the 'homeowners' were quite happy to indulge in it when house prices were rocketing out of reach of the younger generation.

I also don't 'think' that banks are keen to pass on the interest rate improvements to savers but that doesn't stop me hoping that some of it might filter through.

Millions of people the country over 'made' a fortune during the noughties by virtue of nothing more than having a mortgage. Someone has to pay for that. All I'm hoping for is that those who saw their houses increase in 'value', sometimes at a rate higher than they were earning in their salaries, end up paying for that increase themselves. I think it's utterly immoral to expect the younger generation to pay exorbitant prices for a place to live just because they happened to be born in the wrong decade while those born 15-20 years earlier are sitting pretty.

Your 'them' and 'us' viewpoint is flawed. The people who will likely be most affected by the rate increases are young people who have been forced to overstretch to get on the property ladder, not homeowners who have already 'made a fortune' during the good times.

And yes, older homeowners have often benefited from the boom in property prices, but in many cases they are the same people who are stumping up to contribute towards houses for their kids/grandkids. There's always going to be inequality but for the most part we are all ultimately on the same side. Developers with reams of properties may be a different story; they really are just speculators, but for most people it's just the home they live in that is worth more on paper and will be left in a will to buy another property of similar value.

I'm in my early 30s and knowingly bought a house at the peak of the market because I needed somewhere to live and I wanted stability (a decision I don't regret, not least because of the obscene increases in rents). I didn't overstretch and the SVR increases fortunately don't affect me anyway.

As a relatively new first time buyer I guess I am one of the people who is paying for these 'fortunes'. Unfortunately, that is just the reality of the situation for this generation. I don't really care what happens to house prices themselves as the property is to live in, not an investment, but I wouldn't wish defaulting on a mortgage and being made homeless on anyone, however much they have stretched their finances to buy a home.

Carl31

laptop80 wrote: »

Your 'them' and 'us' viewpoint is flawed. The people who will likely be most affected by the rate increases are young people who have been forced to overstretch to get on the property ladder, not homeowners who have already 'made a fortune' during the good times.

And yes, older homeowners have often benefited from the boom in property prices, but in many cases they are the same people who are stumping up to contribute towards houses for their kids/grandkids. There's always going to be inequality but for the most part we are all ultimately on the same side. Developers with reams of properties may be a different story; they really are just speculators, but for most people it's just the home they live in that is worth more on paper and will be left in a will to buy another property of similar value.

I'm in my early 30s and knowingly bought a house at the peak of the market because I needed somewhere to live and I wanted stability (a decision I don't regret, not least because of the obscene increases in rents). I didn't overstretch and the SVR increases fortunately don't affect me anyway.

As a relatively new first time buyer I guess I am one of the people who is paying for these 'fortunes'. Unfortunately, that is just the reality of the situation for this generation. I don't really care what happens to house prices themselves as the property is to live in, not an investment, but I wouldn't wish defaulting on a mortgage and being made homeless on anyone, however much they have stretched their finances to buy a home.

I cant imagine anyone was forced into home ownership. Many purchased at a time when it was all too easy without understanding what they were really doing

WibbleSnarf

laptop80 wrote: »

Your 'them' and 'us' viewpoint is flawed. The people who will likely be most affected by the rate increases are young people who have been forced to overstretch to get on the property ladder, not homeowners who have already 'made a fortune' during the good times.

And yes, older homeowners have often benefited from the boom in property prices, but in many cases they are the same people who are stumping up to contribute towards houses for their kids/grandkids. There's always going to be inequality but for the most part we are all ultimately on the same side. Developers with reams of properties may be a different story; they really are just speculators, but for most people it's just the home they live in that is worth more on paper and will be left in a will to buy another property of similar value.

I'm in my early 30s and knowingly bought a house at the peak of the market because I needed somewhere to live and I wanted stability (a decision I don't regret, not least because of the obscene increases in rents). I didn't overstretch and the SVR increases fortunately don't affect me anyway.

As a relatively new first time buyer I guess I am one of the people who is paying for these 'fortunes'. Unfortunately, that is just the reality of the situation for this generation. I don't really care what happens to house prices themselves as the property is to live in, not an investment, but I wouldn't wish defaulting on a mortgage and being made homeless on anyone, however much they have stretched their finances to buy a home.

That you say my 'them' and 'us' viewpoint is flawed does not necessarily make it so. Nobody was 'forced' to overstretch to buy a house (what's with this bizarre term 'property ladder' anyway, I thought you said it was a property to live in, not an investment?). The reality is that the masses naively bought into the myth perpetuated by the mainstream media that the boom in house prices was somehow sustainable and that it was somehow prudent to overstretch yourself as there were rich rewards to be gained for doing so. Of course, it never was and never will be sustainable in the long term - just as it wasn't in the 90s.

And as for your obtuse point about grandparents subsidising the younger generations, what about the 20-somethings of today who don't have grandparents? Do they not need an affordable place to live? Interesting that you say we are all on the same side. The only beneficiaries of high house prices in the long term are the banks as we have to borrow more, and therefore pay more interest, if we decide to buy a house. We have this bizarre cultural phenomenon in the UK that high domestic fuel (gas/electricity) prices being high is bad, high fuel prices at the pump is bad, high food prices is bad, in fact, pretty much high anything prices is bad, except for houses. Shelter, along with food, water, heat are the basic essentials of existence and yet the Great British public seems to almost universally share the opinion that one of those basic essentials having a high price is a desirable thing. It's greed, nothing more, nothing less. Ask yourself who would be suffering now if house prices had never grown at more than the rate of inflation since the crash of the 90s. Bankers, builders. That's about it. Who would have benefitted? The rest of us.

Well done to you for not overstretching yourself, though. Many others were not so sensible and at a time of historically unprecedented low interest rates, mortgaged themselves up to the hilt to climb aboard the gravy train. Forgive me when I say I have no sympathy for them with their greedy intentions.

You say 'unfortunately it's the reality' that you and others like you are paying a fortune to subsidise those who bought low but reassuringly it's becoming the reality less and less by the day as borrowing becomes more expensive and house prices continue to fall.

Finally, I would ask how you square the rationale of saying that you 'wouldn't wish defaulting on a mortgage and being made homeless on anyone' but you seem quite content for prices to stay high and for many people to have no prospect of owning a home in the first place. This pervasive sympathy for the reckless, the gamblers, is really quite bizarre and I think it's only right that those who overstretched lose their homes as they actively contributed to keeping homes out of reach of those poorer or more risk-averse than themselves.

WibbleSnarf

Carl31 wrote: »

I cant imagine anyone was forced into home ownership. Many made the biggest financial commitment of their lives at a time when it was all too easy without bothering to go to the time and effort of understanding what they were really doing

Corrected for you.

tifo

WibbleSnarf wrote: »

Anyone who has been reckless and borrowed beyond their means ....... deserves little sympathy.

Of course you would include the banks in that opinion and agree that they should not have received the govt's (taxpayer's) sympathy and been allowed to default?

Thrugelmir

laptop80 wrote: »

And if you genuinely think that banks are keen to pass the money they raise from this on to savers then you have my sympathy.

Savers ceased to fund mortgages through banks over 10 years ago. Money market rates currently determine mortgage rates.