Criminal Record ruining everything...

earthbound_misfit

I'm trying to find a way to make a living or have a vaguely satisfying career. I am on ESA at present and have been for two years. A lot of the following is responsible for my current deep depression. This is moneysaving, and a hell of a lot more to me...

Before anyone says "You have yourself to blame" or anything, please note my record is from a time when I was young, frightened, severely depressed and suffering psychotic symptoms (not voices, just losing touch with reality) and in an abusive relationship as well as threatening living situation (verbal abuse and threats of violence) and those I turned to for help in the mental health services were neglectful, criticising and verbally abusive to me too. Please understand I am trying to type this coherently without breaking down. I had a hell of a few years, in fact I have struggled since with so many things especially employment, mainly cos of how horribly depressing it all is, working in a crappy job and trying to keep going when I have no interest in it, and worked and tried and had ambition for what I DID want to do. The last 2 yrs I have been unemployed due to severe depression, was sacked from a care job because they knew I wasn't well. But how can I get better with these memories in my head and no hope for the future?
My criminal record and the times I refer to I was aged 19/20, am now 27 with all dreams shattered. I was always going to be a nurse, tbh the only thing I was cut out for and longed for. I have no hope or ambition left cos every career I am interested in (usually helping other people) is closed off because of my record.
It is for affray and other similar but lesser offences (even the affray charge is only so because of obscure rules about location of event) and I was advised, badly, to plead guilty to everything so 'it would be over quicker'.
I had no mental health support at the time (most offences relate to me trying to get help and losing it with staff) and there is lots of horrible stuff written about me by nurses and the rest who should not be allowed to practice! I can't believe they are allowed to when they treat people so horribly. Once a doctor told me if I didnt leave her room and stop begging for help she'd press her panic button. She did, and then told them I'd been violent so that's in my records too when I would never ever be violent to anyone! I had someone with me on this occasion but I didnt find out i'd been accused of violence for some time, and didnt think I could challenge it as they just write reams of horrible stuff about me.
I thought I did the right thing back then, asking for help with the pain inside, but all it did was screw up my entire life. im sorry for rambling a bit but this is overwhelming I can barely see to type it hurts so much.

So my questions are is there anything I can do about getting rid of the record? Although convictions were 'spent' really quickly (6 months I think) they are forever on an enhanced CRB. Is there any way to legally challenge this?

I did all the right stuff, I worked hard in school, did relevent qualifications and work as an adult, and yet am shut out of any vaguely relevent careers.

kingfisherblue

I don't know of any way to have these things removed from an enhanced CRB. I think they are always likely to show up.

Perhaps you would be better focusing on the future and on jobs that don't require CRB checks. You say that nursing was the only thing that you were cut out for, but with your history of mental health problems, it probably wouldn't have been a suitable career path for you. I think you need to concentrate on the future and on the things you can do, rather than those you can't do. It is possible to have your heart set on one career adn then change your mind - my daughter did. She had always wanted to teach, but now works as a care worker in a retirement village, and loves it. She definitely doesn't want to teach any more.

So, in the absence of any real advice or information for you, I can only suggest that you look at life slightly differently. Focus on something that is possible for you. If you enjoy working with people, maybe retail work would be suitable - few shops require CRB checks, and your convictions are normally spent after a set amount of time. If you don't fancy retail, look at other options. Look forwards, not backwards - that's the only way you will be able to move on in life.

AppleMatt

I have no expertise in the legal system, so I'm sorry to say I can't help you with that.

At the age of 14 I was diagnosed with Schizophrenia, and after more and more drugs didn't "quieten me down", I spent a few years in and out of numerous hospitals, including the priory and NHS places.

I know exactly how tormenting, unproductive, life-sucking NHS psychiatric wards are - there is no future, there is no treatment, there is no hope - you are effectively being held for the benefit of others.

My mum was told I would never get better, I'd be in and out of hospital forever, no life, job or meaningful relationships.

I told her to watch.

In my more lucid moments, I meditated. I learned everything I could about what my mind and body were telling me. I stopped reacting to symptoms, I stopped putting emotional effort and worth in to them. I eventually began to enjoy the voices, enjoy the urges to harm, enjoy the paranoid ideas - because I was looking at them from the outside.

They were there, but I didn't act on them. It took their power and they started to disappear.

I stopped taking the zombie pills pretty soon after. I'm now 24, and have had no "treatment", no pills, no symptoms since 18.

Please, please, do not fall in to the trap of "this is forever". Moods, emotions, feelings are all temporary transient states that once you realise what sparks them can be changed. You can see what sparks better emotions, happiness and joy.

Guess what - a decade after being written off and my mum's heart broken, I'm in heaven with my better half of four years, a higher-rate tax payer, a homeowner, a group of amazing friends - take that ney-sayers!

Do away with the labels - I know there is comfort is saying you are depressed, it explains and excuses. But how about dropping the idea for a little while? Call yourself human instead - capable of feeling a multitude of emotions?

PM me anytime, if you'd like. I know you know things get better, and they get better because you make them. No one else does :T

paddyrg

Things will improve the further away from that period of your life you get. When you're 31, you can refer to it as 'a decade ago', lots of things change in a decade, you may find it easier to get people to understand.

You want to be a nurse - so how about doing a nursing course, and do some private nursing in a hospice. Make it clear in your interview/application that xyz happened so many years back and that you are rebuilding your life and are happy to comply with any restrictions they feel are appropriate in order to get experience and prove yourself. For instance if your record was for theft, say you're happy to be checked going into and out of work each day.

Not all jobs will hold a criminal record against you as long as you don't try to pretend it never happened and are suitably contrite and humble about rebuilding.

marybelle01

Sorry - there is no way you can "get rid" of a criminal record. And I am sorry, but I also don't believe that the entire of the mental health services and medical staff were making things up and "neglectful, criticising and verbally abusive" either. You may have felt that to be the case at the time, but that doesn't mean that your perception, coloured by your illness, was correct.

There are ways of lessening the impact of a record of this nature, but they all start with accepting that you have been responsible for your own actions and decisions, and that your record is of your own doing, and being able to demonstrate that you are sorry for your actions and are no longer a risk to potential employers. Since there seems to be little evidence of that being the case in your post, I cannot see how you are going to be able to do that in person. So you do need to deal with that. Blaming others for this will not cut any ice.

I do agree with AppleMatt that things are not as bleak as you may feel that they are. Given your record - and by that I do not mean just the criminal record - I suspect that nursing is almost certainly a non-starter. So you must cut your cloth. There are a lot of other roles in caring professions, some of which may require you to train for, some which won't, and which your past record will not necessarily be any hindrance if you are able to demonstrate that you have dealt with it and come to terms with it. Many people working in mental health services have experienced mental ill health themselves. Many people working with offenders may have offended themselves in the past. These things are not insurmountable barriers, but the solutions start with you, not with everybody else.

You could look to doing voluntary work in an appropriate setting - perhaps in more than one to gain greater experience. You will need to explain about the past, just as you would with a paid job, if you want to work in a setting with vulnerable people or any form of caring role, which might be good experience in itself. And you are going to have to be prepared to accept knock backs or more limited roles than you would perhaps like. You have something to prove, so I am afraid that is just parr for the course. If you are determined and willing then people will give you a chance, but you have to give them one too - and that means getting rid of the chip and taking responsibility.

You might not like this advice, and it might seem harsh, but it's fair. You had some bad breaks and some really awful experiences in your youth. But whether you let that define who you are and what you could become actually depends far more on you than it does on others. Nobody is going to give you a chance if you can't or won't show that you are not that same person.

earthbound_misfit

I would like to add I did relevent study and worked in care a few years ago, and got a place to start nurse training at a very well-respected (for nursing) university, which was later withdrawn after CRb and health checks.
I was told by my manager in the nursing home that I was one of the best carers they had, and she wrote me a glowing reference. I was actually told in my interview for the nursing course that I would definitely have a place as I had such a strong application - in addition to relevant experience I have also travelled solo a fair bit and worked with people in various circumtances so had the kind of wider life expereince they wanted too (well, for a 24 yr old, before I offend anyone older and wiser!). I was doing fine personally at this time (24 I was due to start) and it is the crushing loss of everything I had worked for that knocked me back so severely.
Also, even when I struggled to hold on to other jobs... or rather, didn't hold on to them at all... I could always do care work, I could always put on a professional front for that (the only reason I failed to do this in the last care job was knowing there was no future to be a nurse for me, this loss has been the greatest in my life. The other stuff, the abuse etc, I could put aside). I also help out friends and things like that (sounds obvious but so many people don't) and if anyone I know needs care I can provide that despite my own issues, it just sort of seems to be the field in which I excel. I also am very scientifically-minded and practical (the latter helped going through the maze of homelessness and unemployment alone). So I am more 'cut out for it' than many nurses I have encountered!

earthbound_misfit

@ marybelle - sorry but that is a bit harsh. I have picked myself up and carried on going so many times. I battled through to get relevent expereince, worked in voluntary settings to get a foot in the door, etc etc. I have done everything I can, but no-one will give me chance with this record!
As for demonstrating I am 'no longer a risk' - I was NEVER a risk to anyone! I won't/can't go into the full details here but my record is utterly unfair and ludicrous that I have one, even the mental health people I have been slightly involved with more recently due to depression have been shocked at the way I was treated. I am so tired of having to pretend to be ok, to keep going with no energy left, to have had years and years of trying to improve my life and get nowhere. You clearly have no idea what it is like. Sorry cos I know ur probably trying to be nice, but I have so much pain inside I can't see how to go on any more, please understand posting here was me trying to find some hope for a way forward at a point where i can barely communicate cos I can't seem to stick a fake smile on right now. i am still trying though i am sick with hurt inside and the memories. So please don't think I haven't tried my best.

ACDC1978

Maybe you could see if you could get an appointment with a careers advisor, explain your tale and see what can be done? If nursing really is out of the question you could start with voluntary work so you have some solid references to back up your 'new' life... perhaps you could even work to helping people out who have been in a similar situation? I've heard of people who have been adolescent offenders who have ended up working on rehabilitating youngsters who are basically them years ago! I wish you best of luck on your path!

dandelionclock30

I know for an absolute fact that people with serious criminal records, and a history of mental health problems and dismissals do work in social care. So this sector is not closed off to you just because you have had problems in the past.1/3 of the social care sector has a criminal record.
Instead of nursing what about looking into other things like maybe a housing support worker or a mental helath advocate or a debt advisor -something like that?
You could start off doing some volunatary work get good references off them and then apply for jobs in that field. You could also do this as well as doing other part time work. You would need to be very honest with the organization you volunteer for as has already been said.
Honestly things are not as bleak as you think.

wantsajob

marybelle01 wrote: »

And I am sorry, but I also don't believe that the entire of the mental health services and medical staff were making things up and "neglectful, criticising and verbally abusive" either. You may have felt that to be the case at the time, but that doesn't mean that your perception, coloured by your illness, was correct.

Mental health services are certainly very dehumanising places. How they treat people was highlighted in a study, now known as the Rosenhan Experiments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment While that work was back in 1973, my personal experience in the late 90's was that things were not all that different.

The worst example of treatment I experienced was when I had side effects from anti psychotic medication. These are known as Extrapyramidal symptoms, the most notable being Oculogyric crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculogyric_crisis At the most extreme, my understanding is that breathing can be impaired, at which point you can't breathe and the likely result of this is obvious. When I had such an attack of these symptoms, I saw a duty doctor. I had managed to learn ways to have brief control over the symptoms, namely the upward eye movements, and neck flexation. With a great deal of effort, I could look straight forward for a brief period, before my eyes would uncontrollably look upwards again. The duty doctor asked if I had seen someone else with these symptoms, the truthful answer was yes. She commented it was unusual that someone could have any kind of control over the symptoms. I was to later find out the duty doctor inferred this meant I was lying and faking the symptoms, and she wrote on the notes to not give the drug used to treat these symptoms, Procyclidine, unless breathing was severely impaired. Anyone who has experienced these symptoms will know that they are extremely unpleasant and painful. Her recommendation not to give the required drugs, was effectively legalised torture.

This is notwithstanding the fact I did not actually have Schizophrenia at this time, but Asperger's Syndrome and likely an acute depressive episode - and should never have been on anti-psychotic medication. But since the mental health experts "always get it right", and people with mental health conditions can't possibly understand what's going on in the world around them, I won't argue if anyone thinks otherwise - as already said my part.

sleepless_saver

Is there anything like the Scottish Apex Trust where you are - an organisation that helps people with criminal records into employment and also provides advice for them on handling CRB issues with prospective employers?