Ethical moneysaving/spending

debtfreeby2013

Hi All,

I've recently started thinknig more about where and how I shop and hope to make it a bit more ethical whether that be in terms of the environment or how they treat their staff and customers etc but I am having difficulty in terms of the ethics of a company.

For example, co-op is deemed as quite ethical although the rating listed on the MSE site is quite low, and then you have the 'best of a bad bunch' situation, I wanted digital TV and Virgin is far more ethical than Sky (IMO) but are they ehtical? If you see what I mean.

So, I was wondering, whether or not people think it is worth starting a list of companies who they consider to be ethical and on what grounds as, if anyone is like me, they may be struggling to actually shop more ethically. What do we reckon?

rogerblack

A minefield.
Outsourcing jobs is evil, and means that people with a poor grasp of english, and no experience of the product answer your calls.
Outsourcing jobs helps to preserve skilled jobs in the UK, and to reduce the cost of products so they can compete with those from overseas.

Using biofuel in their vehicles is a good way to reduce global warming.
Using biofuel in their vehicles helps cause food to be increasingly expensive to the poorest in the world and in some cases has negligible carbon benefits when all life-cycle costs including farming are taken into account.

...

debtfreeby2013

rogerblack wrote: »

A minefield.
Outsourcing jobs is evil, and means that people with a poor grasp of english, and no experience of the product answer your calls.
Outsourcing jobs helps to preserve skilled jobs in the UK, and to reduce the cost of products so they can compete with those from overseas.

Using biofuel in their vehicles is a good way to reduce global warming.
Using biofuel in their vehicles helps cause food to be increasingly expensive to the poorest in the world and in some cases has negligible carbon benefits when all life-cycle costs including farming are taken into account.

...

That is pretty much the minefield I am facing, lol. I think in the end I just decided to go for products and companies that clearly at least THINK about their customers so:

Co-op - membership scheme which gives you a (small) share of the profits every year

Virgin - writes all their T&C's in plain english so everyone can read it and not just those with a law degree.

I just wanted to stay away from companies like Sky (namely, Mr Murdoch) after the phone hacking scandal etc and wanted to move away from my high street bank as I am fed up of stories of how customers are struggling while they're recording record-breaking profits, etc, the rate fixing was pretty much it for me, ya know? I'm also with co-op for their energy, again the membership thing but also, they have been doing single rate tarrifs with a standing daily charge since they started 2-3 years ago whereas the other companies are only just starting to do this now because the Government is forcing them.

Ben84

rogerblack wrote: »

A minefield.
Outsourcing jobs is evil, and means that people with a poor grasp of english, and no experience of the product answer your calls.
Outsourcing jobs helps to preserve skilled jobs in the UK, and to reduce the cost of products so they can compete with those from overseas.

Using biofuel in their vehicles is a good way to reduce global warming.
Using biofuel in their vehicles helps cause food to be increasingly expensive to the poorest in the world and in some cases has negligible carbon benefits when all life-cycle costs including farming are taken into account.

...

Yes, the companies that I think ethical aren't always the ones other people do. For example, I like EDF as I like nuclear (for peaceful uses only), but many other people are very anti-nuclear power and wouldn't buy their electric from EDF.

Many of my favourite ecological products aren't in fact marketed as ecological in any way either, which is surprising really, but subjectivity is a major issue in all of this.

KellyKim

Thanks Debtfreeby2013 for an interesting post.

I guess you first have to ask, what does ethical even mean? What one person thinks is ethical, another may think to be completely unethical. The pharmaceutical industry is a good example of this. So how can you have ethical shopping when no one really even understands what ethical is, even less so all the issues involved. For example, one supermarket may pay their workers well, but not give a damn about the planet or their suppliers, and vice versa.

Also, ethical is always relative it seems these days - Virgin are 'ethical' compared to Sky, but that's not a great endorsement in itself!

Going as local and as small-scale as you can is probably your best guideline for threading gently, and cutting out all unnecessary 'stuff'!

In food, there are degrees of ethicalness in my view - on one end of the spectrum is the big supermarkets, under the under end is growing your own or getting it from the farm gate from an organic producer.

Kel x

thenudeone

It is a minefield because one person's ethical is another's unethical, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, by buying products and services from companies that fit your own criteria.

have a look at http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ for ideas.

debtfreeby2013

The ethical consumer site is, fab but you have to pay for a lot of the reports.

thenudeone

debtfreeby2013 wrote: »

The ethical consumer site is, fab but you have to pay for a lot of the reports.

Glad it was useful.

You could get a subscription (or get a friend to buy it as a present) and all the reports are free:j

A subscription might sounds expensive but it only costs a tiny fraction of the amount of money the average person spends and invests in a year.

Or ask your local library to get it for you.

debtfreeby2013

thenudeone wrote: »

Glad it was useful.

You could get a subscription (or get a friend to buy it as a present) and all the reports are free:j

A subscription might sounds expensive but it only costs a tiny fraction of the amount of money the average person spends and invests in a year.

Or ask your local library to get it for you.

Oooohhh, good idea on the library thing.

KellyKim

Yes I have bought Ethical Consumer for years and it really is a useful read if you want to weigh up all the different considerations of ethical - they rate things over 20 or so different considerations sometimes, so you can make an informed decision.

Just remember that ethical is subjective though, and that probably the best thing to do before buying is to consider if you even really need it in the first place

Kel x

Miss_Ratty

Ethical Consumer is a good starting point, you can view some reports for common household items for free. There is also The Good Shopping Guide which is published every year, the most up to date one is vital as companies readily get bought out sadly, e.g. Green and Blacks now owned by Kraft and Body Shop by L'Oreal.

You should set out your ethics, as ethical buying is complex. You may see nuclear energy as good but this would be an environmentalist's nightmare! There are also lots of free online sources of info, for example you can print lists of companies who don't test on animals etc.

I'm pretty anti most things, so buying ethically would be a complete nightmare and you have to make the odd trade off, but it's all a start, and it's so good to think about where everything actually comes from.