Is "Shared Care" disruptive?

gRoberts

Hi all,

Please could someone move this to the family forum, just realised I put it in the child support forum by mistake

For the past year, I've had to listen to my daughter tell me how much she wants to live with me and then hear how her mother tells her she's not allowed (i.e. she can't until she's 16 etc).

I have approached her mother on a number of occasions asking to discuss this and she always states that my daughter is "playing us against each other" however I disagree.

My daughter was born after the December 2003 and my name appears as the father on the birth certificate, so I have equal parental responsibility.

Today I took a different approach and asked to discuss shared care, by means of 7 days on, 7 days off.

Would you see this as disruptive, even if the child has expressed the desire to live with us?

It's heartbreaking hearing her tell me how her mother rejects every attempt to increase contact and states that any additional contact must be taken within the holidays.

Your thoughts please?

Thanks

kevin137

I now it is is in the wrong forum, but there are many questions you will need answered here as well.

You need to understand that your ex may well see this as a financial burden as the money would in effect not just be halved, but under the new CSA3 stop, someone always needs to be the person that claims the CB WTC & CTC so if we started by saying that you earn more money so would be agreeable to your ex still being the person who would be claiming these under shared care it would reduce some of the fear on the financial side of things, also if you are a higher earner you may well not be eligible anyway, so it would make more sense. It may also be true that she would struggle with the loss of any maintenance you currently pay as she would still be providing many things that would not reduce her costs, like having a 2 bedroom property and as such council tax and bills that go with the expense of still having a bedroom available for her week.

Onto your actual question, shared care is NOT disruptive, it works for many many families. And is in fact quite normal in many other countries, i live in Norway, and it is expected that shared care is happening, and frowned upon if it does not happen, this relies on certain criteria to obviously fit in with your work / lifestyle.

Do you have family support, should your child be ill can you take time of work quickly or have family that can jump in at a moments notice, do you live reasonably near to your ex so it would be the same school, doctors, etc

If you can do this, it is only beneficial to the child and to the parents.

My personal experience of this is quite good, in that, my g/f has 2 children, and we have shared care, he picks them up after school on a monday and drops them back before school the next monday, we use monday to monday for obvious reasons, it means that we are both as families able to go away for a weekend, have free time for a complete weekend, and the kids are not disturbed on a day of rest, we used to do sundays, but we found it quite disruptive and hard to organise activities for all of us and just myself and g/f.

It may be that if your ex is not agreeable that you need to go through the legal system to get it, this will be a fight i'm sure. But if you can address the former regarding the financial sides 1st it may ease the pain that your ex will have to go through and make things easier for you all.

It is not about taking anything away from her after all, neither is it about you gaining. It is about the child and her wishes and what is best for her. If possible, try to sit down, together, maybe in a pub garden with something to eat and drink, and talk about it together, reassuring her that you would rather it was agreeable to you all so you can all benefit rather than have to fight about things and for it to be so hard.

gRoberts

kevin137 wrote: »

You need to understand that your ex may well see this as a financial burden as the money would in effect not just be halved, but under the new CSA3 stop, someone always needs to be the person that claims the CB WTC & CTC so if we started by saying that you earn more money so would be agreeable to your ex still being the person who would be claiming these under shared care it would reduce some of the fear on the financial side of things, also if you are a higher earner you may well not be eligible anyway, so it would make more sense. It may also be true that she would struggle with the loss of any maintenance you currently pay as she would still be providing many things that would not reduce her costs, like having a 2 bedroom property and as such council tax and bills that go with the expense of still having a bedroom available for her week.

I agree... As much as I will no doubt regret for saying so, I am pretty sure that the reasons for not allowing increased or shared contact is purely down to a financial one.

I'll explain why further down

kevin137 wrote: »

Do you have family support, should your child be ill can you take time of work quickly or have family that can jump in at a moments notice, do you live reasonably near to your ex so it would be the same school, doctors, etc

If you can do this, it is only beneficial to the child and to the parents.

I'm glad you asked this. Yes, yes and yes some more. I have family close by, some of whom do not work (retired) and I also have extremely close friends in the child care profession should I need them.

kevin137 wrote: »

My personal experience of this is quite good, in that, my g/f has 2 children, and we have shared care, he picks them up after school on a monday and drops them back before school the next monday, we use monday to monday for obvious reasons, it means that we are both as families able to go away for a weekend, have free time for a complete weekend, and the kids are not disturbed on a day of rest, we used to do sundays, but we found it quite disruptive and hard to organise activities for all of us and just myself and g/f.

I'm really glad it's working out for you, I hope my daughters mother can see the light, however I don't think that will happen unless...

kevin137 wrote: »

It may be that if your ex is not agreeable that you need to go through the legal system to get it, this will be a fight i'm sure. But if you can address the former regarding the financial sides 1st it may ease the pain that your ex will have to go through and make things easier for you all.

The route I only wanted to approach should everything else fail and given I've tried for the past 2 years to do it mutually, I think this may be the only route.

A little background info. My daughters mother has two children, one of whom is not mine. During our relationship, I helped bring him up and during which, his biological father took his mother to court to gain parental responsibility and shared care.

At the time, Cafcass suggested that Shared Care would be disruptive, however I feel the circumstances are different between my daughter and their son.

kevin137 wrote: »

It is not about taking anything away from her after all, neither is it about you gaining. It is about the child and her wishes and what is best for her. If possible, try to sit down, together, maybe in a pub garden with something to eat and drink, and talk about it together, reassuring her that you would rather it was agreeable to you all so you can all benefit rather than have to fight about things and for it to be so hard.

Our daughter has on numerous occasions told us how she wants to live with us and more so now her new sister has arrived into the world.

I don't want to drag her through a court to force her or her mother to decide, however I feel it's the only route I can take.

Please don't flame me, but seriously. Is it wrong for me to think... "I'm her dad, I'm just as entitled to see her, as you are?"

kevin137

Please don't flame me, but seriously. Is it wrong for me to think... "I'm her dad, I'm just as entitled to see her, as you are?"

No it isn't, but be sure it isn't about you. And i mean that in the nicest possible way...

I have been on the other end of it 2, while i encouraged my g/f and her ex, i never had the opportunity with my son, who is 18 in 4 weeks, however, when he turned 16 he made his decision himself, he has booked his own flights to come see me in Norway whenever he wanted over the last 2 years, he has financial support for ANYTHING he wants by way of a prepaid credit card in his own name linked to an account i have, so he can't go silly but he has £1000 always available to him.

He pays for his own shopping, clothes school equipment, holidays from this card, but is not silly as well. This costs me way more than the CSA where taking, but worth it to give HIM the independence and remove some financial burden from my ex. Yes she still pays the bills, but is happy how things are now.

It is purely talking about the hard subjects that makes it easier, getting angry and upset will get you nowhere, assurances on the financial side will help no end.

Good luck, and point her to this forum so she can see the horror stories for herself as well as the positive advice you can receive.

We (the users) try our hardest not to judge, but sometimes arguments happen, you come here seeking help at your worst, and it is not always what yo want to hear. ANd it is very easily taken the wrong way.

If at 1st you don't succeed, try something different...!

Ask for it on a trial basis for 3 months to see how you all adapt, make it formal as a trial with it revisited in the 3 months with the possibility of mediation if you can't agree. Assure her you want to do it without arguments and falling out as that is not beneficial to any of you, most importantly your child.

And good luck to you ALL

gRoberts

kevin137 wrote: »

No it isn't, but be sure it isn't about you. And i mean that in the nicest possible way...

I know, i know. As much it is about my daughter, it is also about other people around her.

kevin137 wrote: »

I have been on the other end of it 2, while i encouraged my g/f and her ex, i never had the opportunity with my son, who is 18 in 4 weeks, however, when he turned 16 he made his decision himself, he has booked his own flights to come see me in Norway whenever he wanted over the last 2 years, he has financial support for ANYTHING he wants by way of a prepaid credit card in his own name linked to an account i have, so he can't go silly but he has £1000 always available to him.

He pays for his own shopping, clothes school equipment, holidays from this card, but is not silly as well. This costs me way more than the CSA where taking, but worth it to give HIM the independence and remove some financial burden from my ex. Yes she still pays the bills, but is happy how things are now.

It's good that you have a positive outcome on things however I feel things will only get harder before they get better.

kevin137 wrote: »

Ask for it on a trial basis for 3 months to see how you all adapt, make it formal as a trial with it revisited in the 3 months with the possibility of mediation if you can't agree. Assure her you want to do it without arguments and falling out as that is not beneficial to any of you, most importantly your child.

And good luck to you ALL

This is my next port of call, however I foresee it resulting in her mother finding any reason to state it's disruptive...

Thanks again for your help, it's nice to know there are some sound people out there

BJV

They always say that to understand some ones situation you have to walk a mile in their shoes wow I hope that I never have to.

I makes me totally fed up when i read posts like yours from people who want to still be a part of their children's life, to responsibility both financial and moral and then have brick walls in the form of ex's put in place.

Sorry i do not have suggestions but i wanted to say that you have to go for it and fight in what ever way you have to to keep in contact.

After all you are adults and this is not about what is best for you or your ex it is about what is best for your children.

I really hope that it works out, good luck

gRoberts

BJV wrote: »

They always say that to understand some ones situation you have to walk a mile in their shoes wow I hope that I never have to.

I makes me totally fed up when i read posts like yours from people who want to still be a part of their children's life, to responsibility both financial and moral and then have brick walls in the form of ex's put in place.

Sorry i do not have suggestions but i wanted to say that you have to go for it and fight in what ever way you have to to keep in contact.

After all you are adults and this is not about what is best for you or your ex it is about what is best for your children.

I really hope that it works out, good luck

It's pretty poor isn't it, but at the end of the day, both my daughter and I have the right to see each other and if that's what she wants, I can't allow her mother to stone-wall me for any old reason.

Thanks again both of you, your giving me hope

kevin137

The only thing that causes this is the fact that society says it is ok. Most societies in the modern world think differently to ours. And it is more the norm rather than the exception.

It is by fighting that changes happen, one step at a time.

There are more hurdles to overcome in the UK because of the financial dependance that is achieved by having children and being a singe mother, this is greatly reduced in other countries by the fact that there is not such a dependance on benefits, and an ex. So the burden for your child is yours for the time you have that care, this causes a more realistic opportunity for shared care for ALL parents, and while this may nto fit well with a lot of people on here for different reasons, it is a proven fact that if it works elsewhere, it can work...!

I know it is hard, there are fathers denied access, mothers that deny fathers access, mothers that always want more money, fathers that want to pay less or pay nothing.

That is not to say i have all the answers. Far from it, i have had some real proper arguments on here. But we all try to do the same thing, give solid advice to suit your needs. Be it right or wrong, you have to make your own decisions at the end of the day.

What is the answer...?

My opinion is that shared care should be encouraged whenever possible. And as such shared financial burden...! This is not always possible but it would be nice if it could happen...

We can live in hope but in the UK that is a long way off...

gRoberts

Here here.

I'm sick of the arguments over contact, money etc. This is why I want to look at shared care. It gives our daughter equal time with both parents and their other familes and it also gives the parents equal financial responsibility , however the primary parent, being the mother, will be entitled to all the benefits.

Either way. Looks like the courts are the way to go Thank god I've just got a new job that pays a little more money huh...

clearingout

How old is your daughter?

what are mum's living arrangements? new partner? is there an obvious difference in living standards between households?

I have experience of shared care with young children and I would say yes, it's incredibly disruptive and doesn't work. However, I will hold my hands up and say that for us, that's probably as much about the very poor quality of relationship between my ex and I as anything else. Unfortunately, he is unwilling to discuss, negoiate, won't mediate. He just wants things his way and his way is the only way. In the end, the court system put a stop to it and he has no one but himself to blame because had he behaved sensibly, I'm pretty sure the court system would have upheld the shared care arrangement.

The financial side of things is a huge consideration in shared care. Feelings obviously run high on that issue! If you are prepared to make sure that mum is no worse off as a result of sharing care, she has no real reason to block giving it a try. However, shared care has to mean just that and you need to be able to fall back on family, friends or paid childcare on 'your' time to avoid problems for mum - this was a big issue with my ex. He thought nothing of being 50 miles away at 3pm on 'his' day and would say 'oh, but I got stuck in traffic'. When the tables were turned and I found myself unable to be in two places at once, he refused to help out - which resulted in one distressed child.

Depending on the age of your child, you may well struggle with the court system - they don't like disrupting the 'status quo', assuming your child is otherwise considered to be happy and doing OK in school etc. The other issue of course is that young children may well want to see more of dad but they don't necessarily understand that means they will see less of mum - my youngest is more than happy to go to dad, never cries, no stroppiness on the doorstep but according to my eldest, he does little other than stomp about crying 'I want mummy' for several hours a day when he's with dad....You will have to attempt mediation prior to going to court so do be open to that.

Hope it works out - I wish my ex were reasonable and we could sort something out between us that worked for the children and meant they were appropriately financially supported at the same time. I would personally welcome more time to pursue friendships and may be even a relationship and I do believe that it's possible for them to benefit. But it takes two very big people to overcome their differences and work for the benefit of the children - dragging it through court is kind of counterproductive in that regard.

kevin137

clearingout wrote: »

Hope it works out - I wish my ex were reasonable and we could sort something out between us that worked for the children and meant they were appropriately financially supported at the same time. I would personally welcome more time to pursue friendships and may be even a relationship and I do believe that it's possible for them to benefit. But it takes two very big people to overcome their differences and work for the benefit of the children - dragging it through court is kind of counterproductive in that regard.

I know how hard you have had it, certainly in the financial front with your ex, and it is a credit to you to say what you say when you wish this guy well.

I know it can hurt when you see others succeed or want more than you and your ex can agree on and it can breed bitterness for sure.

But it is also very good, that a man who really wants this can see it, not just from another mans perspective, and can take from a discussion a womans point of view in what the downfalls are.

I think i tried to address everything, and i may not of got everything, but i think you can do this with the right support, the right attitude (financially) and the ability to adapt and be able to help your ex should the need arise.