Was Capitalism a smokescreen, or a magic carpet?

CKhalvashi

TruckerT wrote: »

I appreciate your support, and I think you are just as confused as me!

TruckerT

I'm originally from a way into a communist state, and both ways certainly are good.

A Communist society works around the model of a planned economy, where the Govt. know what is going to happen before it does (hopefully). There's a wage coming in at the end of the month, but not much opportunity.

Capitalism is both a good and bad thing. In my home country, the move has been very slow, and even 21 years later, there is 21% unemployment, with the majority of work in the cities. One individual (who I happen to know personally) is worth 55% of the country's GDP, through a vast empire. Many more live in poverty! It's the same model as the UK, to an extent. There's no guarantee of wages, but a lot of opportunity.

Make up your own mind!

CK

Generali

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I'm originally from a way into a communist state, and both ways certainly are good.

A Communist society works around the model of a planned economy, where the Govt. know what is going to happen before it does (hopefully). There's a wage coming in at the end of the month, but not much opportunity.

Capitalism is both a good and bad thing. In my home country, the move has been very slow, and even 21 years later, there is 21% unemployment, with the majority of work in the cities. One individual (who I happen to know personally) is worth 55% of the country's GDP, through a vast empire. Many more live in poverty! It's the same model as the UK, to an extent. There's no guarantee of wages, but a lot of opportunity.

Make up your own mind!

CK

My opinion is that if communism was a good thing then the Gulag and the Cultural Revolution wouldn't have been needed.

CKhalvashi

Generali wrote: »

My opinion is that if communism was a good thing then the Gulag and the Cultural Revolution wouldn't have been needed.

Something that's up for debate either way.

Were the Gulag and CR relevant either way to how a country works? IMO, they weren't; same thing as the 101st Kilometer settlements (that had, and still have, lower crime rates than the general population in the majority of circumstances)

No system will ever be perfect, and things should have been done differently.

CK

Conrad

Capitalism really got going in the Victorian age and in general we're far better off now, as all that trade and wealth lead to us being able to build sewers, schools and enjoy unprecidented acces to foreign holls and freedoms such as motor cars.

It also spawned the healthcare we take for granted.


The trouble with planned economies is they have tended to stifle innovation.
Trucker T for example - would you risk some savings you had in order to start an enterprise in a planned economy where you cannot really benefit from that risk? I doub't it, so what happens is nothing develops.

China is a planned economy but has many downsides and certainly ain't the land of the free.

Thrugelmir

TruckerT wrote: »

The world is changing, but none of your ideas will change the world

TruckerT

Agree. Ultimatelty its people that will enforce a new direction.

Takes generational change to effect culture change.

Out with the old guard , in with the new.

RenovationMan

TruckerT wrote: »

The carpet is being pulled from beneath us, and the smoke is not yet clearing

The banks 'got away with it' not because of the absence or presence of appropriate regulation, but because they are part of the 'establishment'

MPs did the same with their fraudulent expenses claims, but some were prosecuted, and were expelled

The banks however are still fully paid-up members - and continue to profit from the chaos which they have created, as the LIBOR/Lloyds thing demonstates

The 'establishment' consists of a single-figure percentage of the population which controls nearly a three-figure percentage of the wealth - they could have bailed the banks by themselves, but, no, its the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer

TruckerT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucW08cbF5Qs

A._Badger

A 'planned economy' is a nonsensical idea. It's like 'planned weather'. Economies are gigantic, complex, chaotic systems, neither comprehensible nor amenable to prediction or 'control' by politicians and bureaucrats.

The evidence is perfectly clear in the failure of the Soviet empire and the Chinese government's pragmatic abandonment of hardline Marxism in order to harness some of the advantages of capitalism.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the Chinese gambit will succeed.

CKhalvashi

A._Badger wrote: »

A 'planned economy' is a nonsensical idea. It's like 'planned weather'. Economies are gigantic, complex, chaotic systems, neither comprehensible nor amenable to prediction or 'control' by politicians and bureaucrats.

The evidence is perfectly clear in the failure of the Soviet empire and the Chinese government's pragmatic abandonment of hardline Marxism in order to harness some of the advantages of capitalism.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the Chinese gambit will succeed.

It worked for my (grand)parents, so there's no reason why it shouldn't work. I have admitted above that there were some points that should be taken into account here, but IMO, it should work well!

CK

Conrad

CKhalvashi wrote: »

It worked for my (grand)parents, so there's no reason why it shouldn't work. I have admitted above that there were some points that should be taken into account here, but IMO, it should work well!

CK

And yet people have long flocked to the lands of the free, not the lands of planned economies.

Remember, if we opt for prescriptive obedience bound up with a centrally planned society, there are compromises. For example if we do away with globalisation in order to support British workers, that will mean rocketing price of clothes etc made here. it would also mean the poor nations of the world dont get the opportunity globalisation bought them.

TruckerT

It is undoubtably true that Capitalism was never a 'planned' economy, but just look at the state of it now!

TruckerT