Pensions... are they worth it?

RichandJ

johnaka wrote: »

Basic state pension is just over £5000 a year. Do you fancy that from age 70?

what a load of !!!!!!!!. most folks are either dead or knackered by the time they(if)reach the age of 70.
very few folks in manual work are in good health at that age.
several of my friends inc 1 brother died before the age of 65 and 2 just after . my last brother died age 72.
most of those that live a long life are living down south very few up north by comparison.
do you honestly think the youth of today are going to have a long and prosperous life by the time they retire at 70. I don't think so after working for over 50 years.
all of us are still paying into the state pension through your national insurance but the government are telling you that.
as far as I'm concern the previous and present government are NOT putting these monies into some kind of pension funds if they had or did we wouldn't be in this mess and thanks to G.Brown when he raided the pensions for tax.
that to has !!!!!!ed the final salary pensions.
in view of all this ,is there any wonder most folks just aren't bothered about pensions.

Then you, and your thanker need to look up, read about and understand cohort life expectancy.

You also need to look up, read about and understand that NI has NEVER been put in a ring fenced fund for any purpose.

Then maybe come back & modify your ill informed rant slightly.

gadgetmind

johnaka wrote: »

,is there any wonder most folks just aren't bothered about pensions.

You're confusing cause and effect. Those who "aren't bothered about pensions" find themselves having to work their fingers to the bone up to and beyond state pension age. Those who do put a few bob aside can retire earlier and enjoy a long and happy retirement.

Pension refuseniks can work as late as they like, die as early as they like, and mither on about how it's everyone's fault but their own if that's what keeps them happy. The only time I'll take issue is if they try and talk younger folk out of saving for their dotage.

BTW, I live it a gritty Northern city, and regularly go out cycling with guys in their 70s. No way are they knackered!

annie1975_2

johnaka wrote: »

Basic state pension is just over £5000 a year. Do you fancy that from age 70?

what a load of !!!!!!!!. most folks are either dead or knackered by the time they(if)reach the age of 70.
very few folks in manual work are in good health at that age.
several of my friends inc 1 brother died before the age of 65 and 2 just after . my last brother died age 72.
most of those that live a long life are living down south very few up north by comparison.
do you honestly think the youth of today are going to have a long and prosperous life by the time they retire at 70. I don't think so after working for over 50 years.
all of us are still paying into the state pension through your national insurance but the government are telling you that.
as far as I'm concern the previous and present government are NOT putting these monies into some kind of pension funds if they had or did we wouldn't be in this mess and thanks to G.Brown when he raided the pensions for tax.
that to has !!!!!!ed the final salary pensions.
in view of all this ,is there any wonder most folks just aren't bothered about pensions.

And just to add to that, a lot of people CANT afford to pay into a pension on the measly wages they get....Can only just keep their heads above water.

real1314

johnaka wrote: »

as far as I'm concern the previous and present government are NOT putting these monies into some kind of pension funds if they had or did we wouldn't be in this mess and thanks to G.Brown when he raided the pensions for tax.

as far as the government are concerned they are NOT putting these monies into some kind of pension fund. as far as every government since the state pension was introduced in fact.

it was never planned to be a built up fund, and most probably never will be.

governments do not have to use funds and insurance backed schemes as they have sufficient economic power to bear the risk of future cost changes, and can also change the payout to adjust (e.g delaying pension age).

I will agree that for some, the loss of income to pay into a pension has nil/marginal benefit if they end up with a self supported income that is only marginally higher than state supported income levels, however I would expect the proposed £140 a week pension to resolve this issue at least in terms of income that goes into pockets (but not for benefits like HB and CTB which pay off a liability).

If you think you'd end up with self-supported income of £150 a week but would get £140 a week off the state, is it worth paying into a pension at £10 a week for 4-50 years? Probably not.

If you think you can end up with a self supported income of £250 a week or more, it probably is. :cool:

BobQ

TheSenSibleOne wrote: »

Ok so heres my current scenario,

21 years old, no pension. Getting married in november, going to college in september to study catering. After 1 year get a job as a chef for 4-5 years meanwhile saving around 500 per month (6k per year) Open our own restaurant using 35k worth of savings (already have 5k squirrelled away)

So my question for the board is, should I bother paying into a pension? Would I be better off saving as much as we can towards the restaurant. Even if the restaurant fails, I will only be 27 ish. If it doesn't then the restaurant will pay for our retirement as we can afford to get managers in when we retire.

Good luck with your strategy. If you are as financially competent as you think, you will no doubt enjoy a prosperous retirement. Its good to have ambition and a career plan but you seem a little naive

So the plan is to set something up with £35K? This would be what a roadside burger caravan? .

How much salary does a newly qualified chef get paid in the first 4-5 years. I assume your parents are paying for the wedding and the training course? You will have £500 to spare each month? Have you worked out a budget?

A pension is very well worth paying into at your age especially as you will probably be knackered when you retire by 40 years of early starts, late finishes, split shifts, hard graft, back problems and stress.:)

BobQ

johnaka wrote: »

Basic state pension is just over £5000 a year. Do you fancy that from age 70?

what a load of !!!!!!!!. most folks are either dead or knackered by the time they(if)reach the age of 70.
very few folks in manual work are in good health at that age.
several of my friends inc 1 brother died before the age of 65 and 2 just after . my last brother died age 72.
most of those that live a long life are living down south very few up north by comparison.
do you honestly think the youth of today are going to have a long and prosperous life by the time they retire at 70. I don't think so after working for over 50 years.
all of us are still paying into the state pension through your national insurance but the government are telling you that.
as far as I'm concern the previous and present government are NOT putting these monies into some kind of pension funds if they had or did we wouldn't be in this mess and thanks to G.Brown when he raided the pensions for tax.
that to has !!!!!!ed the final salary pensions.
in view of all this ,is there any wonder most folks just aren't bothered about pensions.

The notion that you will not live to enjoy your retirement is a common one. When I was 21 I was thinking about being a teacher and someone told me how stressful it was and how so few teachers live to enjoy their pensions at 60. But most of them did and are still alive. Advances in medicine have this effect, so does automation of manual labour. When I was 21 being a carpenter was a hard manual job, these days there are so many power tools around that its much less physically demanding. So despite your current expectations you may live to enjoy a long retirement. Of course if you make no effort to get a pension you will have a poor existence which as you say might shorten your life. Especially as so many of the younger generation have no appreciation of the problems that getting old brings and will find those they raise will have less sympathy when they need help.

What Governments do with your NI is beyond your control. All you can expect is a binding commitment to pay a pension. In the same way that when I was young I expected future Governments to honour the commitment and would now withhold my vote from any party that did not honour it, you too will get old and do the same.

The demise of final salary pensions is due to mismanagement by those controlling them. In the Government's case, they have delayed reforming public sector pensions to ensure they were sustainable. Similarly private sector funds failed to level with their staff about the true costs. Its not that are unaffordable its that have not been adequately funded by staff or employers. The idea that FS pension can be sustained based on single figure contributions from both was always wrong.

As to Brown this is just wrong. He never raided them, he stopped some of the tax relief they attracted. Instead of dealing with the problem they just whinged about it.

Grabs39

For what it's worth, I'm 20, earn £14,200, and pay 5% into my pension and I'm lucky enough that my employer puts in 13% and I still have doubts it will be enough. I do wonder if state pensions will exist by the time our generation retires. I just don't think the idea of state pensions will work after the baby boomers all retire. I want to retire at 60, and have no illusions that that will be considered very young by then. I intend to prop up my retirement by buying property as young as I can (currently saving to buy a house before I'm 22, then want to hammer it paying off as much as possible, then by another property in 10-15 years).

johnaka

dunstonh wrote: »

I dont know where you live but it sounds awful if that is what it is like in your area.



Remember that age 70 in 30 or 40 years is similar to age 60 now.



Those that arent bothered are typically those that are living a consumer lifestyle for today and not thinking about tomorrow. It very much reflects the decline in personal responsibility and adult thinking. I know there are exceptions where people cant look after themselves but its too easy to blame others.

Remember the Panorama (or similar) programme a couple of years ago which showed some whingers about pensions and how they couldn't afford it. Sitting down in front of their large plasma TV with rows of DVDs and computer games complaining about how hard it was to find the money.

ok it might sound contradictionary but I agree Dunny lad.
but most folks are on low paid up here.
a 2 years ago I went for an interview for a welding job.
and they offered me £6.98 hr and all over time will be paid at time and 1/4. one time it was time and a half and double time for sunday work. this was for a timed served welder!
needless to say I told them to stick it. so now I work for myself.
so I earn now about enough for a week and only work about 4.5 hrs a day 3.5 days aweek. I dont pay tax but do in stamps.
also I get paid a little pension each month.
I've got 2 small pensions .with a state pension which was forcast 2 year ago £130 aweek.
so I think I'll manage alright.
most jobs here now offer poor pay.

JoeCrystal

Grabs39 wrote: »

For what it's worth, I'm 20, earn £14,200, and pay 5% into my pension and I'm lucky enough that my employer puts in 13% and I still have doubts it will be enough. I do wonder if state pensions will exist by the time our generation retires. I just don't think the idea of state pensions will work after the baby boomers all retire. I want to retire at 60, and have no illusions that that will be considered very young by then. I intend to prop up my retirement by buying property as young as I can (currently saving to buy a house before I'm 22, then want to hammer it paying off as much as possible, then by another property in 10-15 years).

I don;t know, since you are young, 5% from you and 13% from your employer make up 18% or £213 per month. I personally think that it is pretty good for your age. Just remember to keep increasing your contribution by inflation/earnings.

EDIT: A quick check on pension calculator shown that providing there is 7% growth return (quite optimistic), Still came out as £7,867.28 per year if you retire at 60. The fact you start early and with good contribution rate helps massively in this case.

EDIT2: For a sake of comparison, the rule of thumb for cost of providing final salary pension at 2/3 over forty years are 25% of your salary for forty years.

It is really what kind of income you are expecting when you retire and works backward from it.

Cheers

Joe

johnaka

Advances in medicine have this effect, so does automation of manual labour. maybe so Bobq but have you worked in manufacturing.??
I did for 8 years and its bl**dy hard work. your on the go all the time.head down !!!! up. and its worst in the summer months sweating like a clappers.
I've never know a job that has so many young workers having back problems.one guy worked there since he left school and by the time he was 36 he couldn't do it any more. his back was so worn out that the doctors said that he got a back of a 70 year old. he now has to wear a belt support and forced to retire.the doctors said if he carried on working he would end up in a wheel chair.
it was one of the most depressing job I've ever had.I hated it.
the welders jobs in there are the worst.
the gaffers were always winging.
if you got the required number out say 45 an hr and some young lad comes along bang out 60 an hr, then the gaffers put the target up to 60 an hr and it goes on like this.the youngn's then start to moan how hard it after a week! even though the old timers warn them.
the polish are the worst for this.
I'm not afraid of hard work but when it gets beyond reasonable then its to much.
once my mortgage paid off , I took my redundancy and never looked back.I'm one of the fortunate ones who can do good fabrication work.so I have enough work to keep me ticking over till pension time(4 years to go).
then I'll probably carry on doing what I'm doing but only when I feel like. wink.

its the youngers ones I feel sorry for.
my two sons have work pension's and my advise to them if they want to retire early say 60 is to put as much as they can afford.
it also depends on their pension contract as far retirement age go.